How Much Rye is Too Much?

[solbes]

As the thread states, how much rye is too much? I know there are a lot of people on here who have experimented with various levels of Rye. To date I have only ever brewed 1 recipe with Rye, which was Denny's Wry Smile IPA (fantastic BTW). So very little experience.

I am attempting to clone Summit's Frost Line Rye, a darker non-spiced winter ale of sorts. Here's the specs from their webpage: 1.055 SG, 1.011 FG (from ABV), 25 deg L, 54 IBU. Pale malt, malted rye, chocolate rye, carmel rye, flaked rye (seeing a thread here?). Hops are Summit (onions, might have to skip), Citra (yes please), and 2 experimental hops (one of which might be Mosaic). Its firmly hopped, but the main player is the rye and chocolate coming through.

Here's my first shot on goal for a recipe (29 SRM for color):

7 lbs Pale
1 lb malted rye
1.5 lb choc rye ( ~ 240L -seems high but needed to hit color)
0.5 lb crystal rye (~ 120L)
1 lb flaked rye

Haven't tweaked the hop combo yet but will likely switch out the Summit due to personal preference. Will definitely target 54 IBU with a small amount of dry hopping.

The above recipe is 36.4% Rye. Will this be over the top spicy and unpleasant? Maybe some around here have had this beer and can comment on that too. Any other comments are appreciated as well.

 

[m00ps]

Last time I used that much Rye, the beer had a consistency of nyquil. It was awful. Ive read you can do a protein rest? (nto sure if this is the right name) at like 120-130 to help alleviate this though

also, nit-picking but Mosaic isnt an experimental hop. 5 years ago maybe

 

[LLBeanJ]

25% is my upper limit, but I prefer to keep it around 20%. I once brewed a near 50% rye Roggenbier and had a rough time finishing the whole 5 gallons. I ended up blending the last gallon or two with a Hefe to cut the gear oil consistency. I also brewed this Red Rye Ale recipe that is about 22% rye and it was very good. It had a bit of viscosity to it, but not too much to make the beer not enjoyable. I wouldn't want to go much thicker though.

 

[mhurst111]

I've made this Rye saison several times and love it. 24% Rye in the grain bill.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=238831

Yours is 30 - 36% rye depending on if you include the flaked rye. I'd maybe swap out the choc rye for something else that would give you the same color.

 

[Xpertskir]

My friend made a near 100% rye beer that was tasty, so I guess the answer is no such thing...


In my rye pale ales/IPAs I typically shoot for 17.5%. In a darker beer like that with other competing malt character I'd have no problem going to 20-25% and still assume I'd end up with a pretty balanced malt character.


edit: I didn't see all the different types of rye, first read. Seems a little busy, especially with the use of malted and flaked(which I tend to use pretty interchangeably).

If you are going to mess with the chocolate rye, make sure you use something de husked. Im guessing with all that rye any roasted husk is going to end up giving you more astrigency in the finish that you would want.

 

[MaddBaggins]

The most I've used is 10.5% on a rye IPA. The rye is most definitely a presence in the beer. I've never tried more than that.

 

[stratslinger]

I did a 30% Rye Pale Ale a few months back, and I've got a Roggenbier (German Rye Ale) that was just a hair under 50% that I have to keg any day now.

The Pale Ale was great, jury's still out on the Roggenbier.

 

[hanuswalrus]

I forget where I read it, but 15-18% is a good amount to get a noticeable, but not over-powering rye character. I have a rye saison in bottles that used 15% and I think that may be the limit for my tastes. You may want to consider rice hulls also

 

[solbes]

Great feedback, I was thinking I might have made something undrinkable. Maybe a good time to stray from the recipe a little bit. BTW, I found a better statement of their recipe in this link. Looks like a little lighter in color than I was shooting for and they no longer state experimental hops. Anyone heard of Jester hops? And I like Horizon as a bittering hop much more than Summit.

http://www.summitbrewing.com/system/beer_fact_sheets/0000/6930/FrostLineRye_Sellsheet_DR.pdf

Based on feedback so far I propose revising to a 20.9% rye. This by reducing Chocolate Rye to .75 lb from 1.5, switching to regular crystal malt instead of crystal rye, and dropping flaked rye to 0.5 from 1 lb, Now just 2.25lb of Rye in the recipe.

New Recipe:

8 lbs Pale
1 lb malted rye
0.75 lb choc rye
0.5 lb C80
0.5 lb flaked rye

 

[Queequeg]

I would to say summit goes excellent with rye because of the strong orange flavour

 

[CHansen6]

Last time I used that much Rye, the beer had a consistency of nyquil. It was awful. Ive read you can do a protein rest? (nto sure if this is the right name) at like 120-130 to help alleviate this though

also, nit-picking but Mosaic isnt an experimental hop. 5 years ago maybe

I've been reading up on this somewhat lately, while investigating making a rye wine, which by all accounts can have gumminess and viscosity issues. It has seemed to be that a beta-glucanase rest is what you want. There are some conflicting reports on it's effectiveness. Some say that during kilning on the malt, all or most of the beta-glucanase is destroyed, and thus you need to include unmodified or flaked ingredients (ie flaked rye), or add exogenous enzyme. Others seem to not have any problems, or end up doing a protein rest instead, and seem to report acceptable results. I suppose this could be acceptable enzyme levels actually being maintained in at least some of the their grains, or the protein rest cutting out some viscosity even if the glucans remain.

I can tell you I tried a three step mash (acid rest, protein rest, and sacc rest) on my last hefe (50-50 wheat-pilser). The acid rest (112) was a little higher than a typical beta-glucanase (104), but still in the effective temperature range. It lautered like a dream. Take that with a grain of salt. If anything I over did it, the beer came out a little too clear and too crisp.

 

[stratslinger]

Kegged my roggenbier last night - checked the stats, it's 45% rye. Used no rice hulls in the mash, which I was sure was gonna be a mistake but went for it anyway and had no issues.

Anyway, it's very tasty, even flat. I've got a theory that the amount of crystal/caramel malt can really offset rye a lot. My rye pale and my roggenbier both had around 10% crystal, and both are quite nice. I've had a local brewery's session rye IPA, which I'm told is only 14% rye, and the rye seems much more apparent (in a good way) than in my 30% rye pale...

 

[dmtaylor]

There is no such thing as too much rye. Use as much as you want. However you will have to deal with rice hulls and a low & slow mash to get the body to come out dry, if you don't like a lot of body, as it is super thick otherwise as others have mentioned. I have brewed the following recipe many times, with 40% rye malt, occasionally blending in some chocolate rye for part of the rye for a more porter-like thing that I think I might enjoy even more than the original. This is one of my all-time favorite original recipes that has done very well in competitions. Please note: I have never actually brewed this recipe with wheat, but rather only with rye! The only reason it is posted as a "wheat" recipe is because that's what the OP had asked for. One of these days I want to try it with wheat instead of rye. But anyway... it's truly a rye recipe. Another nice thing about rye is the huge creamy head, like nothing else you've ever seen before.

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=77133&p=722621&hilit=honey+wheat#p722621