how much is too much?

[Peterock]

I decided to brew a batch of beer yesterday that I had bought in febuary. It's a Long Peaks raspberry wheat clone, using a Wyeast pack (1028 London Ale)
So first thing I do is take the Wyeast package out of the fridge(where it has been since I bought it) and pop the nutrient pocket, as per directions. As I was reading the package it explains that it's best used within 6 months of date on front. If not it may just take longer. The date on front was Jan 18th 2011. So as the wyeast package sits for 3 hours+ the bag did NOT expand much at all (if any)like it has for me in the past. So now at 5 hours I'm ready to pitch and bag has not changed in size. I go ahead and pour it in anyway figuring I'm a tad under 6 months age......it's gotta work. Then I start thinking?????????what if they are dead? what if it's a bum package,what if,what if. What do I do? Panic, and go into fridge and grab another Wyeast package from another kit with a Jan 25th 2011 date, pop the pocket shake it up and pour it into my wort along with the first package of yeast. So today I check my brew and I Know don't use the air lock as a fermentation gauge, but.... the water in the air lock is still dead even in both tubes(S type) at the very least I was looking for some CO2 movement to push the water into the one tube. I had a S.G. of 1.05 I want to give it a full 24hrs before I recheck. So my question is. If fermentation did not start and I go buy yet another fresh package of Wyeast can I save this batch? Is that too much yeast even thou they are dead? Is putting in dead yeast going to effect this beer? Does the wort spoil from sitting too long before pitching?

 

[logan3825]

It will make beer, eventually. You should have made a starter though.

 

[Golddiggie]

It's usually advised to either make a starter (never a bad idea) or wait a day/24 hours per month (from the 'born on' date on the packet) after smacking before pitching. So, if you had planned ahead a bit, and smacked it last weekend/week, you should have known if the yeast was good or not.

If you get zero activity after 72 hours (or a little more) I would get a second pack. I would wait longer than 24 hours before checking the brew, since the yeast could still be reproducing and might not have formed a good CO2 layer yet.

I have a packet of Wyeast 1318 in the fridge right now that I purchased about a month ago. Before I use it, I'll smack the mother, and then make a starter for once it's swelled. It will be my first starter with my new stir-plate, so I'm expecting really good things. With the date of my pack, and the OG of the brew, I'll probably make a full 2L starter (the capacity of my flask) for the brew. I'll also be using pure O2 to oxygenate the wort, which helps the yeast as well. BTW, I typically plan on making the starters 2-3 days before the selected brew-day. That way, I have enough time to get them to do their job and not need to push the brew-day off, or have the yeast not ready. I'd rather have the starter done ahead of time, than not.

If you plan on trying the other old pack of yeast, make a starter from it, and/or make sure it swells before pitching it in. If you get NO swelling, then get a fresh pack of yeast.

 

[Peterock]

If you plan on trying the other old pack of yeast, make a starter from it, and/or make sure it swells before pitching it in. If you get NO swelling, then get a fresh pack of yeast.

I already added the second old package. 24hrs per month, Hmmm that I did not know. What temp should I keep the package at while waiting? I know a starter is never a bad idea but this is not a high gravity beer. So what would be the minuim amount of gravity change that would be OK? Eg (SG was 1.05 say in 72hrs it drops only .01)? How long of little to no activity can the wort tolerate? When do I cut my losses and dump? or repitch (again)?

 

[Golddiggie]

I keep them at room temp, or in close to 70F while they're swelling... A bit warmer shouldn't be bad, but try to keep them under about 80F (IMO)...

Give the yeast a bit of time to do what they can... They could be in there reproducing, and eating their dead brothers (they do that) getting ready to go to town on the wort... If you have no additional gravity drop after ~72 hours from the second pack, I'd plan on getting another package of yeast (fresh) and pitch that in...

I had one batch where I used washed yeast that I didn't do quite right. I didn't have enough yeast in it to do the job. After zero activity for a long enough span, I simply got another packet of yeast (fresh) and pitched that in. <24 hours later, full activity. I made a couple of starters with the remaining washed yeast vials, which reproduced enough to use in later batches.

Since reading about this in the Yeast book, I've decided that I'll only harvest yeast that's hard to come by, that I really like. Such as Wyeast PC (Private Collection) strains. Otherwise, I'll simply spend the ~$8 per pack and get fresh yeast. Of course, I'll continue to make starters for pretty much all batches, since most of my brews are a high enough OG that it makes sense (or does to me)... Basically, if my recipe calls for an OG above 1.050 (99% do) I'll make a starter. With the stir plate, I can make a starter faster, with less volume, to do the job. :rockin:

 

[unionrdr]

That's what I did with the starter for my IPA yesterday. 1 1/2C starter with 1/4C DME for the cooper's 7g ale yeast sachet. It sat for 6 hours Till pitch time. It's been chugging pretty hard since the wee hours this morning. No krausen coming out to speak of,just bunches of co2. This is gunna be good.

 

[Peterock]

Well last night about 24hrs from pitching I started to see couple bubbles coming from airlock maybe 1 every 3 seconds or so. This morning about 2 burbs every 2-3 seconds. When I got home from work today (44 hrs from pitching) consistant 3 burbs every 2 seconds. Wow just re-read what I wrote, sounds like baby talk LOL. Anyways this yeast is starting to kick in. Its not like my past experiments with the krausen flowing out of the airlock, but at least its cooking. Knowing what I now know I would have made starter for this dorment yeast. So now that It started off with a lazy sleepy yeast I think I leave it in fermenter 1 extra week, maybe 2. This is a kit from Mom & Pop local brew store. It doesn't give me any target Gravities. I had a 1.05 starting Gravity. Can someone give me a idea of what my finished gravity should be?
3.75lbs Muntons extra light DME
1.0 lbs Muntons wheat DME
4 oz Malto Dextrin
2.5 HBU Nothern Brewer hops
1.5 oz Fuggles hops
1 tsp Irish Moss
Thanks, Pete

 

[Peterock]

Oops, I'm an Idiot. I forgot about the 40L of Crystal malt. I also looked right over the top of the page that has target gravities.

 

[unionrdr]

With a 1.050 OG,it may get down to 1.010-1.012 FG. That's around 5.3% or so,off the top of my head.

 

[Peterock]

So checking on my brew batch (about 70 hrs since pitch) I found the air lock bubbling has slowed down to a double bubble about every 7 seconds. Since I pitched (what I believe to be) dormant yeast into my wort, should I pull the top off and try and stir it up to get some O2 in there? Or is it to late for that and I should just ride out the minimal fermenting activites?
Thanks,Pete

 

[terrapinj]

def don't stir to introduce O2 at this point

if you want to give a gentle swirl to rouse the yeast you can but since 1028 is a med-low flocculation strain you prob aren't going to have issues with it settling out too quickly