How Much Hops? Supplier?

[Asylum88]

Hello,

I am new to home brewing and have brewed 3 successful batches of IPA's using Northern Brewer extract kits. I started with 1 gallon batches and my last one was a 2 gallon batch. I plan on sticking with 2 gallon batches because its just the right amount of beer I can store at one time in bottles.

I think I am ready to create my own recipe. I have done a lot of research here and elsewhere and I can't find a definitive answer on how many ounces of hops I should use for a 2 gallon IPA. I know it depends on taste palate and what I decide to use for extract malt etc. I only want to brew another IPA. I typically like the juicier IPA's but I don't like a crazy amount of bitterness. I do know about alpha acid and about the calculator I can use for IBUs but it seems like its easy to under bitter and over bitter a beer.

The hops I plan on using for my first recipe is Amarillo, Simcoe, and Citra. I plan on using Mallaird Malt Gold for the malt and either Safale US-05 or Safale English Ale yeast. How many ounces of hops should I use? Also, I use Northern Brewer for my ingredients, is there another supplier that is cheaper for buying hops? They charge $15 for 8 ounces of hops.

Thank you all for the help, I really appreciate it!

 

[IslandLizard]

Yakima Valley Hops, Hops Direct, 47Hops, Farmhouse Brewing. MoreBeer has their weekly HopMarket offers.
Those are go to places for hops by the pound, some do half pounds or even smaller.

Make sure to check for the year of harvest.

Watch your shipping charge, some tend to be higher.

Be prepared to freeze your bulk hops.
Also, having a vacuum sealer is best if you store them for longer times, say longer than a year.

 

[schematix]

If you do IPAs, only buy the current crop year. US hops are harvested in the fall. Plan to use up everything you have by nov-dec before the new stuff comes out.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For storing hops, listen to brulosophy podcast Episode 046 | Maintaining Hop Freshness.

... but it seems like its easy to under bitter and over bitter a beer.

What are you reading that is causing this concern?

It's well known that IBU calculations are just an estimate (and contain assumptions about a number of things that may not be true for you and I). For me, the estimates are often "close enough" to get close on the first try for a new recipe. After that, it's "season to taste".

 

[bpgreen]

Are you using any brewing software to help you design the recipe?

I use BeerSmith (http://beersmith.com), which costs money. A new version (3) just came out, and it's on sale until July 5. The price depends on whether you pay a subscription or pay a one-time fee.

There are also some free recipe builders available. Many years ago, I used Qbrew, but it doesn't have nearly as many features as a lot of other programs (I think that's part of why I liked it at first). I don't think it has been updated in a long time, but it's still available for download here: http://www.usermode.org/code.html

A couple of free online tools:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator
http://www.ezhomebrewing.com/ezrecipe/ezRecipe-FREE.htm

I think there are other free programs around, but these are some of the ones I could remember off the top of my head.

 

[JohnSand]

Like cooking, when I want to create a recipe, I consult proven recipes close to my desired result.
But it's also fun to experiment. You don't have to go all mad scientist and start emptying the cupboard, but changing specialty grain, yeast or hops on a recipe is enlightening. I've made a couple of simple recipes to experiment with a new (to me) specialty grain or hop and base malt or extract. Go ahead, study and brew, keep us posted.

 

[chickypad]

I usually take JohnSand's approach as well - researching recipes (online, books, magazines) in the style I want to brew then combine/modify depending on what I have on hand and what sounds good. In your case since you want juicy and not overly bitter I would check out some NEIPA recipes. You should be able to get an idea of hop amounts from those, then you can scale to your batch size and sub in the hops you want to use. Braufessor has a long thread about brewing an NEIPA.

 

[Dcpcooks]

If your looking for juicy but not overly bitter you may want to consider all late additions rather than a traditional hop schedule.

I’ve been playing around with all whirlpool additions the past four or five batches and I’ve been getting great results.

The last few batches got three ounces at flameout and 6 ounces at 20 min of whirlpool. The whirlpool is 45 -60 min between 210 and 160. I start to cool after 20 min from flame out. I whirlpool the entire time and let it sit for 15 min after I’ve turned off the pumps.


Then three ounces dry hop day 1 and 6 ounces at FG. I wait three days and crash and keg. These measurements are for a half barrel batch size at 1.062 og.

I consider whirlpool temps to be between flame out and 160f.

It works very nicely with citra, galaxy, Vic sec, mosaic and other high alpha juicy hops.

 

[Asylum88]

Thank you very much everyone for your responses! So in a nutshell its just better to experiment and do more late additions in the boil than to add a good amount in the beginning. If I add 4oz plus in the bittering stage then I think it might be too much with a 11 percent alpha acid.

 

[kh54s10]

Thank you very much everyone for your responses! So in a nutshell its just better to experiment and do more late additions in the boil than to add a good amount in the beginning. If I add 4oz plus in the bittering stage then I think it might be too much with a 11 percent alpha acid.

Take a look at https://www.brewersfriend.com/ It has an online recipe builder that is free to use. YOU MOST DEFINITELY DO NOT want to use 4 ounces at the bittering stage. The amount for an 11% hop will likely be less than one ounce.

I would not advise experimentation at this stage of your learning. Take a proven recipe and pretty much stick with it as is. You might make a substitution of a malt or a different hop. There are charts for substitutions of hops, malts are a little more difficult.

Here is one hop substitution chart: http://www.brew365.com/hop_substitution_chart.php

If you use software you can add a malt for a different twist on a known recipe. For instance you might take a recipe for a brown ale and make it a brown rye by removing some brown malt or other and adding rye at an amount that keeps the gravity the same so that the 5 alcohol of the finished beer is close.

Keep reading and learning, soon you will be able to make a recipe without starting from something already made. But you need to learn what each ingredient adds or and how it works with other ingredients.

 

[schematix]

Lately i've been doing 4 or 5oz of high alpha (10-18%) per 10 gallons for my IPA. That's in addition to copious whirlpool and dry hops. 16-20oz per 5 gallons seems to be about right for a hop lover's IPA.

I think its about right, but i like that tongue thrashing bitterness.

 

[TGFV]

Thank you very much everyone for your responses! So in a nutshell its just better to experiment and do more late additions in the boil than to add a good amount in the beginning. If I add 4oz plus in the bittering stage then I think it might be too much with a 11 percent alpha acid.

If you don't like bitterness then 4oz in the bittering stage will make it ubdrinkable for a 2gal batch.

I would recommend using brewersfriend and making sure to set it up for a 2gal batch.

And for those hops you could possibly go all late additions, 15 min/5min/dryhop to get some great flavours with minimal bitterness.

What's your estimated FG? This will also effect how you perceive the bitterness. A saison at .002 will be undrinkable at 60ibu while a barleywine or wee heavy St .040 will be great since the residual sugars and bitterness will play well with each other

 

[kh54s10]

Lately i've been doing 4 or 5oz of high alpha (10-18%) per 10 gallons for my IPA. That's in addition to copious whirlpool and dry hops. 16-20oz per 5 gallons seems to be about right for a hop lover's IPA.

I think its about right, but i like that tongue thrashing bitterness.

 

[schematix]

View attachment 578221

Yep that’s how I like it !

 

[kh54s10]

I've never used even half as much hops... I guess I will have to up my amounts someday.... Maybe.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Thank you very much everyone for your responses! So in a nutshell its just better to experiment and do more late additions in the boil than to add a good amount in the beginning. If I add 4oz plus in the bittering stage then I think it might be too much with a 11 percent alpha acid.

That is too much for 2 gallon batch, unless you like way over the top bitter, half an ounce of 11% AA @ 60 mins would be a lot in my opinion. When you use the calculator you'll get the expected IBUs. Unless a beer is very malty to balance it out you will get bitter beer face.

 

[thaymond]

Lately i've been doing 4 or 5oz of high alpha (10-18%) per 10 gallons for my IPA. That's in addition to copious whirlpool and dry hops. 16-20oz per 5 gallons seems to be about right for a hop lover's IPA.

I think its about right, but i like that tongue thrashing bitterness.

I make a 5 gallon Double IPA that mirrors this. I also balance out the crazy 24 oz hop bill with a malty backbone, mashing high (158) and using small amounts of 120 and chocolate malts to balance out the crazy. I also do a massive hops stand at the end to up the juicy flavor factor. At 9.7%, the mega hop DIPA actually comes out fairly balanced, for a DIPA.

Hops are to taste. My tastes are for more pungent, piney, resiny hops. Others love their NEIPAs and fruit juicy IPAs. Some like them over the top, some more balanced or subdued. Find what you like and make it that way. Tongue thrashing bitter sounds like a fun brew.

Now, the same amounts in a 2 gallon batch? That sounds like unbalanced overkill.

For free online calculators, check out www.brewtoad.com.

 

[TGFV]

I feel like the kid in that picture.

The only thing that brings solace is the fact that you can't really comprehend IBUs past a certain threshold.

Also for suppliers, you can also check where you live.

I didn't feel like driving for an hour or paying crazy shipping so my last lb was from my lhbs, but if there is a hop farm nearby then it can reduce costs greatly.

 

[z-bob]

When I first got back into this hobby 4 or 5 years ago, I had no concept of how much hops it takes to brew. So I ordered 3 pounds of pellets from Hops Direct (Dr Rudi, Nugget, and Willamette) I haven't even used up half of them yet -- but they are still good, stored in the deep freezer. Also because I'm a sucker for the 4 ounce bags at Farmhouse, and their occasional sales on 1 pound bags (I still haven't opened the pound of Magnum hops I got 2 years ago for $5)

But with IPA, and especially the "juicy" ones, you will use a lot more hops than I do.

I have started adding my bittering hops at 30 minutes instead of 60 to use more of them and get some flavor besides just bitter. I calculate the amounts using the Brewers Friend recipe builder.

On another note, keep your recipes simple. Two grains and two hop varieties, max unless you are following a tested recipe. My beers got a lot better when I started brewing really simple stuff, and brewing similar beers in a row and working on my technique. One of my best successes was just pilsner malt with a single addition of Sterling hops.

 

[schematix]

When I first got back into this hobby 4 or 5 years ago, I had no concept of how much hops it takes to brew. So I ordered 3 pounds of pellets from Hops Direct (Dr Rudi, Nugget, and Willamette) I haven't even used up half of them yet -- but they are still good, stored in the deep freezer. Also because I'm a sucker for the 4 ounce bags at Farmhouse, and their occasional sales on 1 pound bags (I still haven't opened the pound of Magnum hops I got 2 years ago for $5)

But with IPA, and especially the "juicy" ones, you will use a lot more hops than I do.

I have started adding my bittering hops at 30 minutes instead of 60 to use more of them and get some flavor besides just bitter. I calculate the amounts using the Brewers Friend recipe builder.

On another note, keep your recipes simple. Two grains and two hop varieties, max unless you are following a tested recipe. My beers got a lot better when I started brewing really simple stuff, and brewing similar beers in a row and working on my technique. One of my best successes was just pilsner malt with a single addition of Sterling hops.

Agree on recipe simplicity except in an IPA. I think a blend of 4 or so hops usually gives a better spectrum of bitterness, flavor and aroma. 2 grains max though.

 

[TGFV]

Agree on the recipies for now.

Too many ingredients make it hard to figure out how each ingredient impacts your beer. Simple smash beers are great for figuring out how different ingredients play together, and then you can always add one to see the change.

 

[Asylum88]

Wow! I am so happy with all of the replies. I wasn’t expecting 20+ replies from this post. You guys are awesome

I will take the advice everyone has said. It looks like the common theme is using brewersfriend.com for recipe building as well as beersmith.

I am not sure if this next question should be in a new thread but one of you mentioned the desired FG I want. This might sound stupid but I have not done gravity readings on any of my batches so far. Northern Brewer just said to wait 2 weeks in fermenter and then bottle. I think they want to not overwhelm new brewers with a lot of steps.

My question is how do I do a hydrometer reading without wasting the beer? I read that you shouldn’t put the beer/wort used to do the measurement back into the fermenter. Is that true? I would use a refractometer but I also read that they can be unreliable and not very accurate compared to a hydrometer.

I think the hardest part for me with brewing is all the mixed opinions or even myths on what you should and shouldn’t do when brewing. How did people brew beer way back when there wasn’t any StarSan and PBW etc?? Was all there beer infected? Lol

Thanks again everyone

 

[passedpawn]

DON'T return the beer to the fermentor. A typical test jar for a hydrometer is only a 1/3rd of a cup. If you're worried about losing that much, just make a bigger batch.

Refractometers are pretty useless for reading the gravity after yeast is added, due the presence of alcohol. Many will tell you that it can be done with a some software tools, but in my experience it doesn't work well at all. They work really well, though, reading before the yeast. I make large batches, so I'm not worried about losing a little, but I like to do gravity measurements in the boil, and that can't be done with a hydrometer.

Yes, there was probably a LOT of infected beer back in the day. Mainly, though, heat was relied on to sanitize. Here at HBT, there really aren't a lot of varying opinions on sanitization during brewing. Sanitizing the parts of your gear that touches the cooled wort is essential. You might find it interesting, though, that I don't do any of that on my brewday - my carboys are stored, after cleaning, with some starsan in them, and everything else is sanitized by heat.

 

[jschein]

Bleach was our friend, the new chemicals were scary. Eventually I went the chemical route. Haven’t looked back

 

[TGFV]

Use to be bleach, before that heat, before that people drank whatever got them drunk.

And for recipies I would heavily recommend doing readings but don't base all your brewing on them and get hooked up on it. Most of my beer I just do them to check for completion unless it's a wildly new style, or the ingredients were expensive.

Also never return it. Drink it

 

[Griffin495]

I'd suggest using Brewer's Friend and an established recipe. Plug all those numbers into the software as written in the recipe. Then at the top, click on "Recipe Tools", scroll down to "scale" and enter 2 gallons for new batch size. One other tip I'd like to offer, is under hops, change the units from ounces to grams. Works out much better for smaller batch sizes. I do this and I brew 1g to 2.5 gallon size batches. Pick up a scale like this one to measure out your hops.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IXHSPDK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Griffin495]

Wow, just checked the link. When I bought the scale it was $8.99. Might look for a different supplier.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O37TDO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[TGFV]

For scales, if you have time to wait, you can order them from overseas (yeah Wish app) for 3-5dollars and their accuracy is identical to ones here.

Actually a huge number of scales are actually the same ones (my 4$ scale with 3$ shipping is the exact same model with different stamped serials as a 55$ model I was looking at)

 

[chickypad]

As mentioned the hydrometer reading doesn't take too much beer, and you don't waste it you drink it! If you want to use your refractometer though I have found Sean Terrill's calculator to be very accurate. I downloaded his spreadsheet and figured the wort correction factor as described in the brewer's friend post linked below. I compared over 30 batches with a hydrometer and most are within .001 of the corrected refractometer reading, with almost all the rest within .002. The only beers it doesn't seem to work on for me are very highly attenuated beers like Belgians. So anything I expect to finish about 1.005 or lower I always am sure to use a hydrometer. I don't have an FG hydrometer for the more sensitive measurement anyway, so 1-2 gravity points is pretty much within measurement error and close enough for me. It's certainly fine for confirming fermentation has finished.

http://seanterrill.com/2012/01/06/refractometer-calculator/
https://www.brewersfriend.com/how-to-determine-your-refractometers-wort-correction-factor/

 

[schematix]

Off topic...

I wish i had never spent a penny on refractometers. I have a handheld optical and a digital, and both i'd qualify as damn near useless instruments. The digital takes subjectivity out of play, but you can get +/- 0.5 Brix between readings 3 seconds apart.

They can produce wildly different values from the same wort due to things like temperature difference between the sample and the instrument, or even suspended solids. Dealing with any reasonably warm sample (i.e. not cooled to room temp) also has appreciably evaporation so by the time you read it, it's no longer correct. About the only benefit is you can use 50mL vs 150mL (which is why we all buy these right???). During the mash i pour my samples back into the tun anyways so they aren't lost. Post fermentation i'm only taking a few, so my loss is maybe 1 pull, which can be compensated for.

The calculators IME are only ballpark accurate. The best investment i made was in lab grade precision hydrometers accurate to 0.1P. When you have a digital refract, and good precision hydrometers, you learn to trust the precision hydrometers.

 

[passedpawn]

Off topic...

I wish i had never spent a penny on refractometers. I have a handheld optical and a digital, and both i'd qualify as damn near useless instruments. The digital takes subjectivity out of play, but you can get +/- 0.5 Brix between readings 3 seconds apart.

They can produce wildly different values from the same wort due to things like temperature difference between the sample and the instrument, or even suspended solids. Dealing with any reasonably warm sample (i.e. not cooled to room temp) also has appreciably evaporation so by the time you read it, it's no longer correct. About the only benefit is you can use 50mL vs 150mL (which is why we all buy these right???). During the mash i pour my samples back into the tun anyways so they aren't lost. Post fermentation i'm only taking a few, so my loss is maybe 1 pull, which can be compensated for.

The calculators IME are only ballpark accurate. The best investment i made was in lab grade precision hydrometers accurate to 0.1P. When you have a digital refract, and good precision hydrometers, you learn to trust the precision hydrometers.

As I mentioned, I use the refractometer during the boil. What I do is, as soon as the boil starts (and before I add any hops), I measure the gravity. Then I do a C1V1=C2V2 to determine how much I need to boil off to get to my desired OG. In this way, I never miss my OG. Sometimes I do a 45min boil, sometimes 1:15.

 

[schematix]

As I mentioned, I use the refractometer during the boil. What I do is, as soon as the boil starts (and before I add any hops), I measure the gravity. Then I do a C1V1=C2V2 to determine how much I need to boil off to get to my desired OG. In this way, I never miss my OG. Sometimes I do a 45min boil, sometimes 1:15.

The process makes sense to me.

But my point was that the instrument is only accurate to within a few points no matter when you use it.