How many times should one re-circulate the wort?

[applescrap]

With all respect and cheers in mind

This seems a little heavy weight to be doing here
4 gallon pot Stainless Steel at walmart was like nine dollars i know it was first pot i used to all grain to make 2.5 gallon killer batches in no time. if he doesn't want the 9 dollar challenge im sure he has a 2 gallon pot and if not well than shukky darns

I am so sorry i assumed we all squeeze our sacks I certainly do mine (why am i giggling?). i'll concede no sack squeezed sparged process likely a little better than no squeeze no sparge process. I appreciate that you admit a squeezed sack is probably close to quick sparged process it probably is, but a squeezed sparge I just never thought wow...
But refer to my previous splash out on a pound of grain comment and hakuna matata i have better to do then sparge a bunch of times to save a dollar, but dang do i appreciate your math and numbers. How in the heck did he squeeze that much out?! as a side note I am going electric ala special me i ll fill in later my evil plans.

on another note I dont a hydrometer and have never used one so sorry if i am a little confused around the subject of exact numbers

 

[doug293cz]

Brilliant, Man do I love your post. Thank you... that's just naughty squeezing a sparged batch... by the way I am going to respond just a little later. Also are you talking batch sparge, fly, etc..

It's all batch sparge. I don't know how to simulate a fly sparge (and I haven't seen it done by anyone else either, and I have looked.)

Brew on

 

[TasunkaWitko]

With all respect and cheers in mind

4 gallon pot Stainless Steel at walmart was like nine dollars i know it was first pot i used to all grain to make 2.5 gallon killer batches in no time. if he doesn't want the 9 dollar challenge im sure he has a 2 gallon pot and if not well than shukky darns

Aye, but it doesn't hold heat for ****. I have one, and have tried it. For a 1-gallon batch, the 4-gallon is far to big/wide for a good boil. The enameled cast-iron holds the heat very well!

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I can't believe I'm even writing this but talking about efficiency on one gallon batch is just hmm?

I was just curious - holy crap.

 

[Gavin C]

I was just curious - holy crap.

I think your thinking about numbers and efficiency is perfectly rational. I enjoy this part of brewing and view it as important to me and my brewing. I equate getting the most out of my brew setup with getting consistent results. Allowing me to make the beer I intend not the one dictated by me or my systems inefficiencies/inaccuracies.

This holds true regardless of batch size if brewing to targets is something you want to do. (I do want to do that so am a stickler for accurate numbers).

Lots of folks don't share this approach, many folks never measure gravity. There is nothing incorrect about this type of brewing.

IMO those folks probably should not concern themselves with threads like yours, (topic: a new brewer trying to learn more and refine/improve their process where data collection is key to finding areas to improve upon)

There are plenty of threads that don't meet my tastes, I move on. I'm not about to go to the pipe smoking thread and blast people with the dangers of tobacco usage.

OP, best of luck to you in future brews. Keep working on your process till it gives you the beer you want, at the work level you are happy with while being able to glean as much enjoyment as possible from your time spent brewing. Lots of ways to do that.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Hi, Gavin - I appreciate your post, thanks.

I must confess, though, when it comes to the homebrewer "spectrum," if you have a group of monks at one end and a group of scientists and engineers at the other end, I would definitely be closer to the monks. Having said that, if there are ways to improve my techniques and brew a little smarter whilst still retaining my monkish love for the art (rather than the science), then it only makes sense to keep learning!

Many thanks to all on the thread for the input - I've already got a few ideas and look forward to trying them.

 

[Gavin C]

I like the visual of the spectrum

monk<--------------->scientist

 

[m00ps]

I like the visual of the spectrum

monk<--------------->scientist

where's the guy that b&*(^es about IPAs?

Or the turtles and goats? I think we need a 4-way compass spectrum. Upwards towards turtles/goats is good. Down toward "I hate IPAs" is trolling

 

[applescrap]

Wow....where to begin, ron i guess i was a little strong on that thanks for correcting me. I would hope i have also helped you a little in my posts though as well.
I went to school with monks infact a school founded by a famous monk who sought to incorporate east and west wisdom. I am no monk but i am no scientist either....i am a chef if anything and encourage you and others to see brewing as such. I am going to start a thread along those lines.

It seems gavin you and i view brewing a little different. I like you seek to debate me...i offered you numbers on efficiency perhaps you missed them. They are very scientific based on brew calculators. 80 cents can fix a less efficient process and can also be repeatable if done the same way thus repeatable. We are talking a gallon heck we are talking home brew. I brew beer i drink it i brew again. I read your biab boss post very well done. I can learn from some of these ideas no doubt but i like my hops in fermentor i want everything that goes in always in the whole way. I want everything swimming free all minute molecules completely free and surrounded by water. I seek to restrain nothing i want the hops in till the end giving every last bit of flavor and aroma. So it might be a little cloudier so what to me its the sign of fulfilment. I appreciate your wisdom can you appreciate mine? Check out my new electric ideas ill be pulling 15 gallon batches if i want for under 500 bucks if i want. Bottom line is there are many ways to skin a cat most work

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I would hope i have also helped you a little in my posts though as well.

Definitely! It is very hard to convey tone or emotion on an internet forum, but I did get some very good advice from your posts, and I am grateful.

My "brewing philosophy" (if there is such a thing) is similar to yours. I will brew my beer, pitch my yeast and then let it sit in the closet until it shows no more signs of fermentation, and then bottle. It hasn't served me wrong, yet and I've always had great beer. I keep good track of what I do, so the results are repeatable. Can't ask for much more than that!

Take care, my friend, and as they say, brew on!

 

[applescrap]

Cheers! Your welcome.... and I really appreciate the gratitude. I am grateful for this thread as well. When you mentioned monks i knew our philosophies were aligned somewhat and rereading your posts makes me convinced a little more so.
paying better attention to your initial post I like what you're up to and you are right the trub will take care of the extra stuff from the strainer and that little cloudiness left behind i call perfection. I don't know or care if that will make it win a competition or not I trust my palate and my heart . I am from Fort Collins a pioneer city in brewing. Our parties were not Budweiser they were fat tire and we went through tons of kegs. I am humbled that people on this site we're pioneering home brewing and I've come a long to suckle on the teet. original question you ask interesting in that why is everyone building recirculating systems rims and herms....basiclly a pump forces recirculating the WHOLE 60 min. Mash i mean the whole time to tge end!! ehhh...but consider this it is plausible some of the comments that you received basically calling recirculating sparge foolish is from someone who might recirculate! High gravity braumeister grainfather etcc....all expensive systems recirculate mash. I cannot find definitive evidence of better efficiency but there is definitive evidence of clarity and repeatability.....recirculate for those reasons..... to truly sparge the grains rinse them with super hot water because it will help and speed boil but I don't like rinsing cuz I want to trust super soaked..... and to answer your question yeah I don't think I'd go stirring in the strainer too much without grains floating in water. But for all I know it might not matter try it anyways.. but based on how you're doing things clarity probably isn't going to happen from your sparge process. For efficiency follow the previous sage advice given here....mostly mine throw in an extra pound of grain for strength less grain weaker....harmony...creation...joyful brewing. I dont make a lot of money and brew to brew quickly and cheaply last wednesday brewed 5 gallons pumpkin as i do every year this time...will keg tomorrow maybe drink and brew more

 

[doug293cz]

Cheers! Your welcome.... and I really appreciate the gratitude. I am grateful for this thread as well. When you mentioned monks i knew our philosophies were aligned somewhat and rereading your posts makes me convinced a little more so.
paying better attention to your initial post I like what you're up to and you are right the trub will take care of the extra stuff from the strainer and that little cloudiness left behind i call perfection. I don't know or care if that will make it win a competition or not I trust my palate and my heart . I am from Fort Collins a pioneer city in brewing. Our parties were not Budweiser they were fat tire and we went through tons of kegs. I am humbled that people on this site we're pioneering home brewing and I've come a long to suckle on the teet. original question you ask interesting in that why is everyone building recirculating systems rims and herms....basiclly a pump forces recirculating the WHOLE 60 min. Mash i mean the whole time to tge end!! ehhh...but consider this it is plausible some of the comments that you received basically calling recirculating sparge foolish is from someone who might recirculate! High gravity braumeister grainfather etcc....all expensive systems recirculate mash. I cannot find definitive evidence of better efficiency but there is definitive evidence of clarity and repeatability.....recirculate for those reasons..... to truly sparge the grains rinse them with super hot water because it will help and speed boil but I don't like rinsing cuz I want to trust super soaked..... and to answer your question yeah I don't think I'd go stirring in the strainer too much without grains floating in water. But for all I know it might not matter try it anyways.. but based on how you're doing things clarity probably isn't going to happen from your sparge process. For efficiency follow the previous sage advice given here....mostly mine throw in an extra pound of grain for strength less grain weaker....harmony...creation...joyful brewing. I dont make a lot of money and brew to brew quickly and cheaply last wednesday brewed 5 gallons pumpkin as i do every year this time...will keg tomorrow maybe drink and brew more

Recirculating a mash is different than what the OP is doing (mixing initial and sparge runnings, and recirculating after the mash is complete.)Mash recirculation is done primarily for temperature maintenance/ramping with HERMS or RIMS systems. It has the added benefit of speeding up the saccharification rate, which can shorten mash times. The gelatinization process that must precede the conversion of starch to sugar is diffusion limited, as water must penetrate the starch particles, and be absorbed by the starch in order for the starch to become soluble. Recirculation has a similar effect to continuous gentle stirring during the mash. Agitation, either by recirculation or stirring, will short circuit the diffusion by speeding removal of the gelatinized outer layers of the particles, allowing water faster access to the inner layers.

Recirculation of wort (vorlauf) in still mashes is done to clarify the wort and remove grain particles prior to run-off. Recirculation is stopped prior to sparging. There is no recirculation during fly sparging. In batch sparging, a vorlauf can be done prior to each sparge run-off, in addition to the vorlauf prior to initial run-off. In particular, recirculating initial runnings with sparge runnings will reduce lauter efficiency, and therefore mash efficiency. Recirculating initial runnings with sparge runnings negates the benefits of sparging. It won't harm the beer however.

Brew on