How long do I ferment Saison warm?

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Doog_Si_Reeb

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So I've got a Saison in primary. I really like the style so I had to brew one. I harvested some WLP568 (Saison Blend) from a buddy's homebrew and made a decent starter. I pitched it Saturday evening and it was going strong all day Sunday and part of Monday. It was fermenting at ~68-70 for the first 48 hours. I finally got the temps up and now it's sitting at ~83 (based on the thermometer taped to the side). The fermentation has kicked back up and is going decent.

I'm in no hurry to rack it off the yeast cake, but the rig that I have for keeping it warm is a little obtrusive. I'm using a root ball heater, wrapped around a better bottle, with a blanket over the whole thing for insulation. Not pretty, but more effective than I expected!

My question is, how long should I keep it warm? Should I keep the temps up until I get to my target gravity and then let it cool off? Do I keep it warm for an extra week or two after target gravity has been achieved?

Thanks!
 

keelanfish

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I've only had one horrible experience brewing Saison, but what I understand you want to try to find the sweet spot for the yeast to get it to attenuate as much as possible. I've heard this can be as high as 85 to 90f. Saison yeast is notorious for not attenuating and my one attempt at the style is still to this day stuck at 1.031 and its been two months with lots of attempts to get it started again. Better luck to you.
 
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Doog_Si_Reeb

Doog_Si_Reeb

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I'll give it some time, but if sticks above 1.020 for too long (4 weeks or so), I'll probably rack it onto a 1056 cake to try to dry it out. I've never done a Saison before and I have heard they are finicky. I'll probably take a gravity measurement middle of next week to see where it's at.
 

AnOldUR

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Saw you over on my Saison thread. I think that patience will be the key with this one. Keep the temperature in the 85-90 degree range and hope it doesn’t stall, but a couple of months is not unusual. Before you pitch it on another cake, you might want to try giving it a swirl and jacking up the heat closer to 90. The Saison yeast should be able to do the job. It’s just a bit temperamental. I’ll be interested in hearing your progress.
 
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Doog_Si_Reeb

Doog_Si_Reeb

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Just to follow up on this one...

I brewed this a couple weeks ago and pitched in the high 60s where it stayed for about 2 days. I raised the temperature up to the mid-high 80s for ~10 days. Yesterday I was curious so I pulled a sample. I was quite happy to see that the gravity was down to 1.010. I'm going to pull the heater off and leave it in primary for another week or two to see if drops a few more points, but I'm pretty happy with it at 010.

And it tasted fan-****ing-tastic!
 

RudeLead

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I have a saison fermenting (with wyeast 3724, supposedly the Dupont strain) now and what people say about this yeast being slow is very much true. It's been in primary for over 2 weeks and last time I checked it was down at 1.027. That was a few days ago and there is still activity in the airlock. Pitched 1.5 liter starter. What I have found, though is that a little bit of aeration seems to kick the fementation back up (no, not only because it releases co2 when i rock the baby).
 

steelerguy

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What I have found, though is that a little bit of aeration seems to kick the fementation back up (no, not only because it releases co2 when i rock the baby).
So do you mean you are putting in an airstone and putting oxygen in there or just rousing the yeast? (Should not really be much 02 in the fermenter headspace)

I am going through the same thing right now and will rouse the yeast by swirling it around and that seems to help for a bit, but it just settles back down again. Seems to be fermenting more like the Apfelwein I am brewing than a typical beer. The krausen dropped after a couple days but I still have bubbles coming to the surface.
 

Austin_

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Last weekend I brewed the AHS Ginger Hibiscus Saison. I went with the WLP568 Belgian Saison Ale yeast. I made a 1/2 gallon starter afew days before. When I pitched the yeast it was at high krausen and the wort was at ~70 degrees. The thing took off like a rocket within a couple hours. After two days it had warmed up to about 78 and was chugging along nicely. The krausen dropped after 5 days and I took a reading of 1.020. Saturday it started back up after actually dropping a few degrees to 76 and reformed a nice layer of krausen. Yesterday, 7 days after pitching, it was sitting at 1.015. Still moving along. This was my first time making a saison and didn't really know how the yeast would do. I was worried I couldn't get it warm enough, and truth be told I might not have gotten it warm enough to get some of the desired flavors. I don't think I've ever had the problem of not being able to get the primary warm enough. Usually the opposite.
 

Arkador

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I have a Sasion that is closing on 2 weeks now. After about 4 days, all activity came to a stall. I was siggested by my homebrew club to give it a swirl to kick it back up. the Sasion yeast is quirky.

A swirl on the 6th and 7th day got things going faster than they were after 36 hours, and it has been going for the last 3 days with an airlock bubble at least every 3 seconds for 3 days streight.

My plan is 4 weeks int he primary fermenter, then streight to keg, and give it a month to condition before dropping it to 38 degrees and carbing.
 

riored4v

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So do you mean you are putting in an airstone and putting oxygen in there or just rousing the yeast? (Should not really be much 02 in the fermenter headspace)

I am going through the same thing right now and will rouse the yeast by swirling it around and that seems to help for a bit, but it just settles back down again. Seems to be fermenting more like the Apfelwein I am brewing than a typical beer. The krausen dropped after a couple days but I still have bubbles coming to the surface.
Same with mine that i have going right now. Krausen settled quick after a couple of days but i still get fairly consistent bubbles in the airlock/blowoff tube setup.

I've tried rousing my yeast once but i didnt notice much difference. I have mine fermenting at around 87* (atleast i hope so.. i have a dial thermometer taped and shielded to the side of my carboy).

i'll probably pull a sample this weekend to see how its doing since that will be the 2 week mark.
 

RudeLead

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So do you mean you are putting in an airstone and putting oxygen in there or just rousing the yeast? (Should not really be much 02 in the fermenter headspace)

I ferment in plastic buckets, so I opened up the lid a bit and let in a little bit of air as I took a gravity sample and then roused the yeast a bit. After a day, the krausen had built back up (although small...) and it has been fermenting very slow, but steady ever since. Still a bit of activity in the airlock after 3 weeks, but several minutes between each bubble. Turned down the temps a bit yesterday and think I´m just gonna let it condition, without racking, in the primary as I don´t wanna expose it to much more air. Took some time, but it smells great (and the earlier gravity tests tasted nice and very saison´y as well).
 

sundaybrewingco

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I just brewed a saison this weekend (an Ommegang Hennepin clone) and I was given Belgian Wit yeast.... Should I still ramp up the temperatures during fermentation since it is not a saison yeast? Or should I go out and buy some saison yeast and repitch?
 

climateboy

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I just brewed a saison this weekend (an Ommegang Hennepin clone) and I was given Belgian Wit yeast.... Should I still ramp up the temperatures during fermentation since it is not a saison yeast? Or should I go out and buy some saison yeast and repitch?
Well, it's not really a Saison with that yeast, and I wouldn't jack up a yeast past its recommended temperature range. You could pitch a Saison, but the mix of flavors would be unpredictable, and again, if you have the temperature outside the range of the Wit, perhaps unpleasant. I'd just let it go, and make a true Saison next month, when it's even warmer!
 
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Mine took 7 weeks to finish. SG was 1.071 and it slowed to a crawl around 1.038 - 039. The first week I had it at 88F - 90F and by week 7 was in the mid 70's. I used Wyeast 3724 and was told by Wyeast it can slow in the mid .030's if the temp isn't high enough. I am glad I waited it out as it is a good beer but not a DuPont.
 

sundaybrewingco

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Well, it's not really a Saison with that yeast, and I wouldn't jack up a yeast past its recommended temperature range. You could pitch a Saison, but the mix of flavors would be unpredictable, and again, if you have the temperature outside the range of the Wit, perhaps unpleasant. I'd just let it go, and make a true Saison next month, when it's even warmer!
Thanks, I just had 2 blankets around it and it was about 68 degrees. It just started fermenting, so i'll take one of them off and leave it at that.. I don't know why the kit (Ommegang Hennepin clone) came with a Belgian Wit yeast but oh well.
 

Arkador

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Just over 3 weeks in on mine, and sitting at 1.012. Giving it a swirl 3 days in a row at the middle of week 2 made a huge difference in mine rolling along. I did not airate other than before pitching, and only opened it up for a periodic gravity check.

I will likley keg it this weekend, cold crash it, and let it set in the keezer for a month before force carbing.
 

lamarguy

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It really depends on which Saison yeast strain you choose.

I've used the Saison-I yeast strain before and it took 10 days to hit the target gravity. I've got a batch fermenting with Saison-II yeast right now that has gone from 1.060 - 1.006 in 4 days @ 78F.
 

culaslucas

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Mine has been going for 1.5 weeks now. Started at 68, slowly ramped up to 80 over a few days and now it's been sitting at 80 for 1 week. It's only made it down to 1.030. I'm going to bump it up to 85 today and swirl the hell out of it...hopefully that will get it moving right along.

Tastes good though...
 

LeeF

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Doog,

What's your recipe? I've got a Saison in the keg. It's my first attempt so I would like to improve it.
 

Saccharomyces

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I just brewed a saison this weekend (an Ommegang Hennepin clone) and I was given Belgian Wit yeast.... Should I still ramp up the temperatures during fermentation since it is not a saison yeast? Or should I go out and buy some saison yeast and repitch?
Hennepin clone probably should be a Wit yeast. When I had it a few weeks ago I thought it tasted like a Wit brewed with mostly Pils malt, rather than a saison. :drunk: Wit yeast I use at 74*F with great results.
 

rlichti

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I pitched 3724 with a starter into saison at 78 degrees on Sunday. OG 1.050 and last night it was already at 1.009. I was planning on raising to 85 or so after the first week as I heard it can take a long time but this seems to be screaming right along. Should I still let it sit warm for a few weeks like I was planning or should I cool and condition once I hit target gravity (1.005 give or take)?
 

ghosthef

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I brewed using 3724 on last Sunday and it took off at 75 degrees. I ramped it to 85 after 24 hours and then 90 after 48. The beer is already down to 1.016 so I'm pretty satisfied. I have also been giving it gentle "shakes" a couple times each day. Can't wait for it to finish up!
 

PDX_T

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I have read that it can take a week or two for the phenolic character to come through.
 

DrummoRC

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I brewed a saison back in early February - two/three weeks in fermenter 78 f and two in keg at room temp - WLP 568 - it turned out so well I made it again this past weekend.

I did not have any of these issues! I am guessing it the yeast I am using that is the difference?



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TastyAdventure

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Dang, I didn't know what I was getting into. My Saison is on week 5 in primary and I've just had it in the hottest room in the house, at 72 f. Still haven't taken a gravity reading. I don't know how I'd get the temp up... Guess I should go take a reading tonight, probably gonna need to give it a swirl...


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slbradley01

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I've been brewing a hoppy rye saison for a couple years now, using the WLP565. I've fallen in love with this strain. I've had zero problems with it. I will say, in the beginning, my hesitation to crank up the temp did result in slow primaries. Now I ferment at about 82 and have gone as high as 90. I have a dedicated fermentation fridge, an old chest freezer with a light bulb inside and a stc1000 controller, so the temp stays very steady. I just crashed and racked 10 gallons into corny kegs and it had gone from O.G 1.055 to 1.010 in two weeks. It will let it dry out just a little more over the next few weeks, then I'll do a little dry hop, maybe four days, add co2 and give it a few weeks to carbonate and age and it will be done. I haven't brewed anything with really high alcohol. 5.5-6 is what I shoot for. This yeast has a nice peppery belgian flavor. I haven't had any off flavors. This style takes well to a little fruit too. I've done cranberries, blackberries, raspberries. I'm thinking lemon or orange for the next batch, which will be for July/August.
 

deepbluegroove

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Do any of you slowly ramp the temp? like 66-68 for the first few days and then 80s / 90s for another week and a half?
Or do you go straight for the 80s.

One easy way I have found to raise the temp was to use an aquarium heater, in a water tub, with the fermentation bucket in the tub.
The aquarium heater will turn off when it reaches a certain temp. I use a separate temp gauge to see what it is and adjust it.
 
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