How important is mash Ph???

[Schnitzengiggle]

My water's Ph is about 7.1 or so, will I need to adjust the water Ph during mashing, or will the grains lower the Ph naturally?

I understand tht darker grains lower the Ph more, but if I were to brew an ordinary bitter would the Ph end up low enough?

FWIW I am planning my first AG brew day for Labor Day weekend.

 

[HenryHill]

All-Important.

Put your water data in the spreadsheet in the sticky and find out, before you brew.

At the very least, CHECK the mash pH and adjust to the correct range, if neccessary.

 

[brrman]

Don't be like me and go through 3-4 initial AG batches only to have severe astringency and nearly undrinkable beer before you tackle your water problem.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Problem is my water company only does a reading every 3 years, so I have the info I need from October of 2006, this October they will take another reading, so I will have more/better up to date info.

Would it be wise to use 5.2 buffer regardless?

My water is pretty neutral. according to Palmer's spreadsheet, if I am reading it corectly it says (from the water profile I have) that it is would be "balanced" on the profile, but my Ca is a bit low.

This is what I know:

PH - 6.4-7.10
Calcium (Ca+2) - 21-32
Magnesium (Mg+2) - 4.1-4.3
Bicarbonate (HCO3-1) - 98-110
Sulfate (SO4-2) - 7.8-8.4
Sodium (Na+1) - 19-26
Chloride (Cl-1) - 4.7-8.3
Potassium (K) - 1.6-1.9
Nitrate (NO−3) - 1.2-1.9
Total Hadrness (CaCO3) - 69-97
TDS - 120-150

 

[dfohio]

Don't be like me and go through 3-4 initial AG batches only to have severe astringency and nearly undrinkable beer before you tackle your water problem.

I second that advice.

 

[Bsquared]

pH is all important for the mash, get some pH strips to monitor your pH before you sparge and its too late.

I've never had to adjust my pH, but I still check it with every batch. It's one of the few things you can fix on the fly, and its vary easy to check.

 

[salad 419]

pH of your water supply is "almost" a useless piece of information. The amount of Chlorine they use, which depends on the time of year, affects the pH. Also, pH is not indicative of the buffering capacity of the water.

As indicated above, plug your water profile into a few calculators to see if it will match the beer style you use.

That being said, I've NEVER checked my mash pH with spring water and everything has turned out well with it. Local water, however, equals crap beer. I sent the water off to Ward's for analysis.

 

[z987k]

pH of your water supply is "almost" a useless piece of information. The amount of Chlorine they use, which depends on the time of year, affects the pH. Also, pH is not indicative of the buffering capacity of the water.

As indicated above, plug your water profile into a few calculators to see if it will match the beer style you use.

That being said, I've NEVER checked my mash pH with spring water and everything has turned out well with it. Local water, however, equals crap beer. I sent the water off to Ward's for analysis.

I agree the water pH alone is useless information, but local water in not necessarily crap. I like the water I have here, the only time I have to dilute it is with pilsners, other that than I can leave it or build up and it matches the style fine.

Mash pH is very important in the conversion process.

 

[boo boo]

Looks like to me that you would best get rid of chlorine first and then worry about what to add to your mash to get the beer right for the style. 5.2 is a little insurance for a mash, but some mashes don't benefit from using it. In most cases it don't hurt to try.

If you need to add a little calcium to the mash to get you pH right, then remember... a little goes a long way. Never add more than 2 tsp of a mineral to your mash.

 

[z987k]

Looks like to me that you would best get rid of chlorine first and then worry about what to add to your mash to get the beer right for the style. 5.2 is a little insurance for a mash, but some mashes don't benefit from using it. In most cases it don't hurt to try.

If you need to add a little calcium to the mash to get you pH right, then remember... a little goes a long way. Never add more than 2 tsp of a mineral to your mash.

I'm sorry but what kind of info is that? What is wrong with chlorine in the water? It's an essential part of a water profile.
Not more than 2tsp? Why? What if the water needs it to fit a profile you're going for?

 

[Droot]

Check the PH of the mash, THEN do something about your water if you need to. It took me a long time to understand it, then I read Palmers book on line. I drew lines on his chart and found out what I thought I already knew. My water makes for a brown ale best (SRM 12 to 15). It still makes awesome stout and a pretty good Lighter beer.

I DO ignore those recipes that recommend gypsum with out knowing what profile its going in to.

Calcium is important for yeast.

David

 

[salad 419]

I agree the water pH alone is useless information, but local water in not necessarily crap.
Mash pH is very important in the conversion process.

Agreed, and good catch on my drunken typing skills. I meant to say MY local water produces bad beers, even though it tastes fine. But, since I haven't checked the mash pH when I use MY local water, it's my own fault and I have never tried to correct it.

I realize it's a chemical imbalance (in the water as well, not just me), but just not sure what's going on with it until I get my results back. Then I'll adjust accordingly. And maybe some day, I'll rob a 7-11 to get some cash to buy a pH meter to do things totally correct.

 

[Denny]

My water's Ph is about 7.1 or so, will I need to adjust the water Ph during mashing, or will the grains lower the Ph naturally?

I understand tht darker grains lower the Ph more, but if I were to brew an ordinary bitter would the Ph end up low enough?

FWIW I am planning my first AG brew day for Labor Day weekend.

As important as pH is, it's one of the last things you need to worry about when you start AG brewing. I brewed AG a couple years and made award winning beers before I even measured it!

 

[HenryHill]

Problem is my water company only does a reading every 3 years, so I have the info I need from October of 2006, this October they will take another reading, so I will have more/better up to date info.

Would it be wise to use 5.2 buffer regardless?

My water is pretty neutral. according to Palmer's spreadsheet, if I am reading it corectly it says (from the water profile I have) that it is would be "balanced" on the profile, but my Ca is a bit low.

This is what I know:

PH - 6.4-7.10
Calcium (Ca+2) - 21-32
Magnesium (Mg+2) - 4.1-4.3
Bicarbonate (HCO3-1) - 98-110
Sulfate (SO4-2) - 7.8-8.4
Sodium (Na+1) - 19-26
Chloride (Cl-1) - 4.7-8.3
Potassium (K) - 1.6-1.9
Nitrate (NO−3) - 1.2-1.9
Total Hadrness (CaCO3) - 69-97
TDS - 120-150

Actually from what I see, you have no real obvious issues.

Chlorine is what the city MAY put in, and people use camden tablets to help off gas it. I know little about this point, as I have a well. Look in the wiki for that. They may be using a different version of chlorine, and it is NOT easy to drive off.

I suspect that you can make nearly every style of beer with that report and not have major off flavors-but I again, would double check on the exact type, chlorine or chlorimine, of sanitizer that they add.

Since I see no major red flags, maybe try calling them to see what sanitizing agent they use, just to be sure.

Denny is just lucky to have good water-others should not be so quick to take it for granted-especially with well water.

Get good strips to check for pH at the first brewing of each style of beer-lighter beers are the hardest as dark malts are more acidic, and you want a range of 5.2-5.6.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Chloromines in your water will make it tastes like crap (chlorophenols). I'd imagine chlorine does the same thing, but you can boil it off.

So not only is pH important, but water profile is very important. I usually buy my water, but I think it's about time to install my filter in the brewery.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Actually from what I see, you have no real obvious issues.

Chlorine is what the city MAY put in, and people use camden tablets to help off gas it. I know little about this point, as I have a well. Look in the wiki for that. They may be using a different version of chlorine, and it is NOT easy to drive off.

I suspect that you can make nearly every style of beer with that report and not have major off flavors-but I again, would double check on the exact type, chlorine or chlorimine, of sanitizer that they add.

Since I see no major red flags, maybe try calling them to see what sanitizing agent they use, just to be sure.

Denny is just lucky to have good water-others should not be so quick to take it for granted-especially with well water.

Get good strips to check for pH at the first brewing of each style of beer-lighter beers are the hardest as dark malts are more acidic, and you want a range of 5.2-5.6.

Thanks for the reassurance, will campden tablets work for both chlorine, and chloramine?

I use a PUR water filter for all of my extarct brews so far, and absolutely no problems, but IIRC the PUR filter doesnt take care of chlorine/chloamine levels.

 

[david_42]

Would it be wise to use 5.2 buffer regardless?

Very cheap insurance. I also add it to my sparge water, so I can sparge hot without getting tannins.

 

[Denny]

Thanks for the reassurance, will campden tablets work for both chlorine, and chloramine?

Yes, it will.

 

[Denny]

Very cheap insurance. I also add it to my sparge water, so I can sparge hot without getting tannins.

I've spent the last couple months experimenting with 5.2. I've found that sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. It's by no means a "magic bullet".

 

[z987k]

I've spent the last couple months experimenting with 5.2. I've found that sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. It's by no means a "magic bullet".

I'd be be willing to bet it always get the pH to 5.2. What does not work on it. It was one hell of a buffering capacity, so you have to have some very alkaline water for the pH not to drop.

 

[Denny]

Denny is just lucky to have good water-others should not be so quick to take it for granted-especially with well water.

Yeah, I am lucky, but I should point out that I have well water, too. I guess what I'm saying is that there are far more important things to focus on when you're learning to brew AG. But it certainly doesn't hurt to get a profile of your water from someplace like Ward Labs and be aware of what's going on.

 

[Denny]

I'd be be willing to bet it always get the pH to 5.2. What does not work on it. It was one hell of a buffering capacity, so you have to have some very alkaline water for the pH not to drop.

It does not always get the pH to 5.2 for me. It depends on the beer style. My water is slightly hard on the carbonate side, pH about 7.9. I recommend that anyone who uses it still check their pH to be sure it's doing what it's intended to do. Don't just assume.

 

[boredatwork]

First, mash pH is directly related to two things: your water and your recipe (specifically malted grains).

Second, I disagree that water profile/pH are of secondary importance. As someone mentioned, it is not a valuable learning experience in AG technique to brew a recipe that is scientifically impossible to be good no matter how good of a job you do in your process.

Taking that one step further, if your water can be a direct and overtly limiting factor in the quality of your beer I don't know how that doesn't qualify it as one of the most important things to be concerned about?

I just mentioned this in another post, but to me the concept of water chemistry not being important is backwards, and I think that the consensus is starting to change in that direction.