How important is Mash out?

[GIusedtoBe]

I see recipes that call for this and some that don't. Obviously your sparge water will end any conversion but it will be at conversion temp for longer. Is this step necessary?

Thanks,
Al

 

[Bobby_M]

Not unless you're fly sparging..

3, 2, 1, countdown to when a batch sparger will post that they've seen an efficiency increase by doing it. However, you MUST list out your entire process along with that detail because there are some methods that MAY benefit from a mash out infusion. For example, if you like to do one bulk sparge to save effort, then yes, it would help. If you don't mind splitting the sparge in two, then no... not so much.

 

[BigKahuna]

Not unless you're fly sparging..

3, 2, 1, countdown to when a batch sparger will post that they've seen an efficiency increase by doing it.

I batch sparge. The water I use is 170F, but the only real improvement to efficency that I've had has been stirring like hell, waiting 7 - 10 minutes to start draining, vorlauf EVERY sparge, and take 7 gallons off of the grain.

Never mashed out though....never reallt thought I needed to.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

I didn't used to do a mashout, and my gravities were always VERY low. For instance, Pale Ale est. FG: 1.012, but actual FG was 1.008. This was consistent in ALL of my all grain batches until I used a mash out. My last couple batches I've done a mash out with 185F water, which raises my grain to around 168-170F. This resulted in a less dry finished beer with more mouthfeel due to a higher FG. I'm not all that experienced, but I would assume this is because the mash out halts the conversion, and leaves a bit more unconverted sugars. All I know is that now my final gravity comes out within a couple points of my estimated. What's great about this discovery is that now when I want a very dry finishing brew, I just don't use a mash out. Sparge with 165F water and the FG will be consistently low.

Oh yeah, when I sparge with 185F water my efficiency is about 75-78%. When I use 165F water for my sparge, my efficiency is between 65-70%.

 

[GIusedtoBe]

I didn't used to do a mashout, and my gravities were always VERY low. For instance, Pale Ale est. FG: 1.012, but actual FG was 1.008.

Thats almost a perfect description of my first AG APA. It is in secondary right now but it finished out at 1.004 and that was with 1/2 a pound of dextrin malt and 4 ozs. of Crystal. I did a step mash that was not necessary because of the recipe and it ended up mashing for about 1.5 hrs or more. The hydrometer sample tasted good but I expect it will be a bit thin and a bit high octane.

Regards,
Al

 

[Cookiebaggs]

I fly sparge and I think it helps to raise the grain bed temp to match the temp of your sparge water before starting the sparge.

I steam mash (basically direct fire). I've just made a mashout a part of my brewing process and do it all the time because it really doesn't take that long.

 

[WBC]

I fly sparge (modified, I keep the water above the grain at all times) any more as it seems to get a bit more sugars than batch sparging. I first try to get the mash up as close to 170F as I can by infusing more near boiling hot water a bit at a time while recirculating and stirring but I am limited by the mash-tun size so sometimes I will run off part of the mash before adding more hot water until I reach near 170F. I then continue to sparge at 1 qt a minute until I get my boil volume.

 

[DeathBrewer]

i seem to benefit from a mash-out...i do a single batch sparge.

 

[BigKahuna]

Oh yeah, when I sparge with 185F water my efficiency is about 75-78%. When I use 165F water for my sparge, my efficiency is between 65-70%.

Dont' know how i missed that...but you my friend may have just catapulted me into the next level of brewing Nirvana. Thanks.

 

[wildwest450]

Dont' know how i missed that...but you my friend may have just catapulted me into the next level of brewing Nirvana. Thanks.

I have to go 190f to 195f to even get close to 168-170F.

 

[Bobby_M]

i seem to benefit from a mash-out...i do a single batch sparge.

Yup, and I contend that the first part there is based on the second part.

If you're willing to double batch sparge, a hot sparge of 185F is accomplishing the same thing as a mash out so there's no worry about not halting conversion. The reason the mashout is important in fly sparging is due to the fact that the sparge takes so long. You need to "flash" denature the enzymes prior to running off for 60+ minutes. In batch sparging, your bed gets up to the mid 160's within 10 minutes anyway.

 

[jrhammonds]

I fly sparge as well; and I have a 10 gallon gatorade cooler, so heating it up (with fire) to 170 is out of the question for me. Now, I have a friend with the same set up and he adds 1.5 gallons of near boiling water to mash out. He then sparges with the remaining 3 or so gallons. But I thought the benefits of fly sparging are only at play if you sparge continuously with the near 5 gallons. Thoughts?
Also, I've heard of some people doing a mini decoction mash. In other words, they'll take a gallon of the runnings from the mash--bring to a boil, add back to the mash tun, then sparge at 175 or so. Thoughts on this?

 

[BarleyWater]

Also, I've heard of some people doing a mini decoction mash. In other words, they'll take a gallon of the runnings from the mash--bring to a boil, add back to the mash tun, then sparge at 175 or so. Thoughts on this?

I almost did this on my last batch, but was unsure of myself, so I just added boiling water. I would like to hear any opinions on it also, it could be like a hybrid decoction mash.

 

[Hagen]

I fly sparge, and see better efficiency when I mash out. But the better effeciency I see could be due to my setup and process. I only have a 5gal MLT, so my larger grain bills just might not be getting sparged enough as opposed the the ones where I have the extra 4qts+ space for a mash out.

 

[DeathBrewer]

decoction is great for mash out. i used to do it all the time to raise temp during my mash. just pull a couple (thick) of gallons out and heat while stirring continuously. once it starts boiling, throw it back in. i'm sure there are some calculators out there.

 

[Joe Camel]

Yup, and I contend that the first part there is based on the second part.

If you're willing to double batch sparge, a hot sparge of 185F is accomplishing the same thing as a mash out so there's no worry about not halting conversion. The reason the mashout is important in fly sparging is due to the fact that the sparge takes so long. You need to "flash" denature the enzymes prior to running off for 60+ minutes. In batch sparging, your bed gets up to the mid 160's within 10 minutes anyway.

I think that there is a "yes, but" in there... The grainbed does get up to mid 160's within 10 minutes, but at that point you've already drained 60-65% of your sugars into the boil pot where they sit and cool in the presence of soluble enzymes.

Unless you have two burners and can apply heat to the wort as it's being collected while heating more batch sparge water, you might derive benefit from mashing out, especially if you're looking for a higher FG.

I smell an experiment in the air.

 

[TexLaw]

I also mash out, even though I double batch sparge. I do it just to stop conversion where I want it. I really cannot say how it affects efficiency, as I've varied that process to find out, but it works great for nailing your conversion where you want it.


TL

 

[Bobby_M]

I think that there is a "yes, but" in there... The grainbed does get up to mid 160's within 10 minutes, but at that point you've already drained 60-65% of your sugars into the boil pot where they sit and cool in the presence of soluble enzymes.

Unless you have two burners and can apply heat to the wort as it's being collected while heating more batch sparge water, you might derive benefit from mashing out, especially if you're looking for a higher FG.

I smell an experiment in the air.

Doesn't everyone have 3 burners? You're absolutely right. If you don't have a means to get runnings on the heat right away, a mashout would be benefitial.