How I Got Kicked From Beer Advocate (& HBT)

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Gary_Oak

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So before I got this app on my phone I used another brewing forum called beer advocate I'm a newer brewer but I've really fallen in love with it and I've read 4 books about it (getting my fifth in the mail) in order to get the information I need to make my own recipes intelligently.
Anyway I decided all the reading in the world won't give me experience so I thought that by joining a forum I could learn from other people's mistakes and get some helpful answers to my questions, but instead all I got with beer advocate was a bunch of people with virtually no experience whatsoever asking about how to add all kinds of weird **** to their beer, I mean I actually had to explain what star-san was to some of these people. And they were annoying as **** too whenever I made a comment somebody who just wanted to argue would try to nullify my point with faulty logic.
For example one guy had to turn the ac off in his apartment for a week and was worried about his carboy getting too hot so he put it in a bathtub and wrapped a towel around the top and had a hose going to the sink on a steady drip, so I replied "why don't you just fill the bathtub with water?" And some jackwad replied to my comment and said the towel Idea was better because it was a smaller surface area so they're would be less evaporation. And I'm like that makes absolutely no sense, do you have any idea how long it would take an entire bathtub to evaporate?
Another example is when somebody who has never made beer before, never even read a book on it wanted to make beer with birch syrup and 25% malt extract and I tried to explain to this guy that birch syrup is probably 100% fermentable and would most likely all get turned into alcohol and would loose a lot of the birch flavor during fermentation so I told him he should use it as an adjunct and as a priming sugar and this was the response I got "it's the sugars in the syrup that are 100% fermentable not the compounds that make the flavor"
And somebody else responded "exactly! That's the same misunderstanding people have with honey." I wanted to shout at them and be like, first of all, No ****, and secondly Your completely missing the point.

So after a while I was just getting sick of stupid comments and people posting ridiculous things like and I am not making this up:

Ketchup in Beer?

When to add Peppers to Beer? (Yes hot ones)

Whisky in beer?

Hard Root Beer?

So I was about ready to never come back to beer advocate so I sarcastically posted "do babies ferment?" And then got a message that I'd been banned for trolling.

I just want to say, experimenting is fine, if you want to try a new adjunct that's fine, but I absolutely cannot fathom why people want to add things to beer to make it not beer anymore and still call it beer. There's a reason why Hops and Barley have been the two main ingredients for centuries I just don't get it you have close to 100 kinds of grains to choose from and probably around 300 varieties of hops why not use that to make your beer unique and use other ingredients to accentuate hop flavors not cover them up I just don't understand why you would want a beer to taste like ketchup or whisky or chile peppers or root beer, even extensively fruity beers I don't approve of. My philosophy is that thinking outside the box is easy but thinking of things that haven't been thought of inside the box is much more of a challenge and will often produce better results.

Lastly Id like to say this site has been very pleasant and the mobile app is much, much more user friendly.
 
You will find traditionalists on Homebrewtalk, but you will just as easily find people who will make beer with cereal, fruit, vegetables, herbs, other alcohols, etc. Be forewarned that the internet is a diverse place wherever you go. I'm fairly certain a thread about fermenting babies will also get you banned here.
 
Funny story, thanks for posting.

I'm not against people trying things, to each their own. I've seen peppers used in some beers that sound like it turned out pretty good. Not sure if I would ever try it but hey, you never know.

I like the idea of the Reinheitsgebot, although I also use yeast, wheat, cane sugar, and a few other select items, but that's not to say I haven't fermented all kinds of juices with lots of extra sugar added to see what kind of ABV I could get... :drunk: But, I didn't call it beer either.

I say experiment away and let us know what works and what doesn't. As you stated, we can all learn from each other.

Na Zdorovie!
 
Welcome. But you will probably get some of the same here. From the sounds of the other site it should not be anywhere near as much though.

Also Ketchup - probably not but give it a try... Hot peppers in beer - definitely done. Jalapeno Ales are plentiful. I did one with crushed red pepper, it was very good. Whiskey in beer - another yes. Hard root beer - probably can be done.

Think about it. Shandy's have lemon, Pumpkin ales, Blueberry ales, Blue Moon uses orange. There are a lot of things used in beers. Why limit yourself.

One of my best beers was a change-up on a pumpkin ale. I used spaghetti squash instead of pumpkin. It was great! It had a nice peppery spice flavor.

If you want to use only water, barley malt, hops and water go for it. I also like to use rye, wheat, corn, candi sugar etc. IT IS STILL BEER!!



And your post about fermenting babies is just disgusting......
 
Anyway I decided all the reading in the world won't give me experience so I thought that by joining a forum I could learn from other people's mistakes and get some helpful answers to my questions, but instead all I got with beer advocate was a bunch of people with virtually no experience whatsoever asking about how to add all kinds of weird **** to their beer, I mean I actually had to explain what star-san was to some of these people. And they were annoying as **** too whenever I made a comment somebody who just wanted to argue would try to nullify my point with faulty logic.
Here is my takeaway from your post and most notably, this part I quoted, you're a new brewer who is gung-ho. We've all been there and we are likely still there, exception being some of us aren't incredibly new to the hobby. You read some books then suddenly people lacked experience in your eyes. You even mentioned that someone had never read a book on brewing. In truth, I know brewers who are amazing and they've never read a brewing book either. I will tell you that I am not one to defend BA, but at the same time I will defend the members as many of them have a vast amount of knowledge about home brewing. Just like this place, people are going to ask questions that may sound stupid to you, but they're not stupid. You read a few books, it hardly makes you the guy who should be deciding that essentially the entire community has virtually no experience. You don't know that. Looks like you had a run in with a couple of members, tops, that perhaps didn't agree with your assessment on some things. So what? This is the internet and in this hobby, opinions do vary from time to time.


So after a while I was just getting sick of stupid comments and people posting ridiculous things like and I am not making this up:

Ketchup in Beer?

When to add Peppers to Beer? (Yes hot ones)

Whisky in beer?

Hard Root Beer?
Well keep reading your books please. Hard root beer is not outlandish. People have been making it for a long while and some have even made it with grain instead of just adjuncts. There's an entire thread on it right here at HBT. Whisky in beer? Why is that ridiculous? Seriously, you're kidding, right? Peppers? They're pretty damn popular these days, especially in stouts and porters. Ketchup, I want to say gross, but then again that Old Bay beer isn't actually horrid. It's not my thing, but it isn't horrid.

So I googled and I found that ketchup thread. You voice your opinion, "you cant make beer with ketchup, that is I refuse to accept it as beer at that point its a bloody mary" and that's cool. Like I said, we all have our opinions. But then I came across threads that completely contradict your entire assessment of BA being full of people who have virtually no experience.

A helpful thread:
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/how-much-to-use.288666/
A thread where I don't see odd ideas...except maybe your original post because I didn't see the point of the effort it would take:
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/floating-siphon.288894/
A thread where you were the instigator in derailing a thread where someone had a valid question (good work):
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/gypsum-or-chalk-for-upping-calcium-in-a-tripel.289001/
A very welcoming thread:
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/newer-home-brewer.288375/

So what's the point? The point is that it appears to me that perhaps you had some varied opinions that weren't well received and instead of just ignoring those who decided to try odd things in their beer, you got all rowdy and started the fermenting baby thread.

I want to give you a heads up, you will find threads here where people will debate certain things, people will ask about putting things in their beer that I find odd, people will ask if you can harvest wild yeast off a cat, and people will be helpful and welcoming. In fact, in terms of home brewing, this place is like a giant BA. BA's larger audience is discussing commercial beers from what I gathered. I could be wrong, but still, the threads they have on home brewing do not tell me that there is a lack of experience there. You were trolling. You got banned for trolling, as you know. I assume the same would happen here if you lose your cool and act the same.

So breathe. RDWHAHB and welcome back to HBT.

do babies ferment?
No, our bodies are mostly water.
 
Ketchup in beer does not appeal to me at all, but those other three are pretty common. Whiskey/barrel-aged beer is so common now that I wouldn't even call it experimental anymore. You'll see stuff like that here, and far weirder (see the aforementioned cat yeast thread). If it bothers you, just take a deep breath and remind yourself that it isn't going in your beer. ;)

The main difference I see between HBT and BA is that BA has a focus on commercial beer, and you run into a lot of people with extremely niche tastes ("I'm on a big barrel-aged sour quad kick right now"). There's some of that on HBT too, but you're also likely to find someone with an appreciation for whatever other style you're into, and anyone that gets overly pretentious about it is likely to get called on it.

Oh, and fermenting babies? That's ridiculous...

Everyone knows you dry-baby to avoid driving off the delicate aromas.
 
I have a jalapeno rasbperry wheat that has earned me about $250 in random brewing related prizes. Ketchup is gross on or in everything, but I understand if someone is taking part in some goofy local hombrew competition and they have to make a ketchup beer. As for whiskey in beer have you not heard of any barrel aged beers? Its is a quite common practice. HBT is going to have the same amount of crazy ideas as anyone other site. well except maybe www.bat****crazybrewers.com
 
+1 to all the above ^

Sorry to hear you were banned for throwing out a tongue in cheek question. I'm sure you could contact them to get reinstated or just sign up under a different name. That is IF you want to be part of that community.

In my early brewing days, a few years before discovering the mecca of homebrewing: HBT, I received some snippy comments in a dedicated Yahoo group. I decided it wasn't worth my time plus I simply hated the format anyway and moved onto better territories.
 
Welcome. But you will probably get some of the same here. From the sounds of the other site it should not be anywhere near as much though.

Also Ketchup - probably not but give it a try... Hot peppers in beer - definitely done. Jalapeno Ales are plentiful. I did one with crushed red pepper, it was very good. Whiskey in beer - another yes. Hard root beer - probably can be done.

Think about it. Shandy's have lemon, Pumpkin ales, Blueberry ales, Blue Moon uses orange. There are a lot of things used in beers. Why limit yourself.

One of my best beers was a change-up on a pumpkin ale. I used spaghetti squash instead of pumpkin. It was great! It had a nice peppery spice flavor.

If you want to use only water, barley malt, hops and water go for it. I also like to use rye, wheat, corn, candi sugar etc. IT IS STILL BEER!!



And your post about fermenting babies is just disgusting......


your misunderstanding what I'm saying I aid hops and barley are the main ingredients just because it's a fact they are and I didn't feel like listing every adjunct out there. I'm fine with all grain based Malts and adjusts and I'm also fine with pretty much every kind of sugar out there In fact I've been working on a molasses cookie porter for a while it's just when you add things that give beer a completely uncharacteristic flavor and also I limit myself because I have a way which I think things should be done and that's what's going to help me develop my own style I'm not against adding herbs and things to beer in fact I plan on using ginseng and other natural remedies for relaxation and stress relief, it's the people who don't even think about what they're putting in intelligently. I mean I work really hard on forming my recipes and I think every step of it out and I think just the fact that people have to ask if it's a good idea or what would happen shows that they didn't really put much thought into it.
 
Welcome. But you will probably get some of the same here. From the sounds of the other site it should not be anywhere near as much though.

Also Ketchup - probably not but give it a try... Hot peppers in beer - definitely done. Jalapeno Ales are plentiful. I did one with crushed red pepper, it was very good. Whiskey in beer - another yes. Hard root beer - probably can be done.

Think about it. Shandy's have lemon, Pumpkin ales, Blueberry ales, Blue Moon uses orange. There are a lot of things used in beers. Why limit yourself.

One of my best beers was a change-up on a pumpkin ale. I used spaghetti squash instead of pumpkin. It was great! It had a nice peppery spice flavor.

If you want to use only water, barley malt, hops and water go for it. I also like to use rye, wheat, corn, candi sugar etc. IT IS STILL BEER!!



And your post about fermenting babies is just disgusting......


your misunderstanding what I'm saying I aid hops and barley are the main ingredients just because it's a fact they are and I didn't feel like listing every adjunct out there. I'm fine with all grain based Malts and adjusts and I'm also fine with pretty much every kind of sugar out there In fact I've been working on a molasses cookie porter for a while it's just when you add things that give beer a completely uncharacteristic flavor and also I limit myself because I have a way which I think things should be done and that's what's going to help me develop my own style I'm not against adding herbs and things to beer in fact I plan on using ginseng and other natural remedies for relaxation and stress relief, it's the people who don't even think about what they're putting in intelligently. I mean I work really hard on forming my recipes and I think every step of it out and I think just the fact that people have to ask if it's a good idea or what would happen shows that they didn't really put much thought into it.
 
popcorn_indiana_jones.gif
 
I hardly ever go on BA anymore, as they can be politely pretentious. I got the impression that some folks over there gave themselves a bigger pat on the back than they deserved. And there's definitely a lot of disagreement over what beers are good or bad. It's all personal taste after all.
I found that whiskey barrel-aged beers are nothing new in this country. They go back to early colonial times, under the slang name "whiskely". I'm going to brew my new, updated version of my original recipe for it today, a pb/pm biab ale.
Hot peppers in beer are becoming popular with chili heads these days, my son being one of them. He grows scorpions, ghosts, etc to satiate his tastes for flame-thrower dishes. He had me design an IIPA recipe for him to put some of the peppers in. With some digging, you can find the thread on here someplace.
Sometimes, folks come along with some pretty "out there" ideas for beers. It's all part of the experience with newbies & seasoned brewers alike at times. Ideas just pop in there sometimes. But on BA, sometimes I got the impression that some were having a bit of fun trolling others. Just in a polite way so as not to seem like they're trolling.
 
your misunderstanding what I'm saying I aid hops and barley are the main ingredients just because it's a fact they are and I didn't feel like listing every adjunct out there. I'm fine with all grain based Malts and adjusts and I'm also fine with pretty much every kind of sugar out there In fact I've been working on a molasses cookie porter for a while it's just when you add things that give beer a completely uncharacteristic flavor and also I limit myself because I have a way which I think things should be done and that's what's going to help me develop my own style I'm not against adding herbs and things to beer in fact I plan on using ginseng and other natural remedies for relaxation and stress relief, it's the people who don't even think about what they're putting in intelligently. I mean I work really hard on forming my recipes and I think every step of it out and I think just the fact that people have to ask if it's a good idea or what would happen shows that they didn't really put much thought into it.
So because others prefer to go willy-nilly and experiment with something so trivial as their homebrew, they're not doing it right? If I don't don't spend hours formulating recipes with spreadsheets and book references, I'm not doing it right? Some see it as science, like you, and that's fine. Other's see it as art and prefer to spend their time brewing and trying things as opposed to sitting with a book and trying to hypothesize how a recipe will taste based on numbers.

I'm interested in your comment about giving beer an uncharacteristic flavor. Tell me, what flavors are "characteristic" of beer? I know I've had lots of different beers with lots of different flavor profiles.

Also, who cares if they haven't put much thought into it. These are internet forums. It's where people come with their free time. Think of it as a conversation. Have you never had a casual conversation where you brainstormed with people prior to doing extensive research on the idea?

Me thinks you need to loosen your tie a bit and let others enjoy their own hobby, regardless of how different they do it than you. This is beer. Not cancer research. It's to be enjoyed. Not snobbed.

:mug:
 
your misunderstanding what I'm saying I aid hops and barley are the main ingredients just because it's a fact they are and I didn't feel like listing every adjunct out there. I'm fine with all grain based Malts and adjusts and I'm also fine with pretty much every kind of sugar out there In fact I've been working on a molasses cookie porter for a while it's just when you add things that give beer a completely uncharacteristic flavor and also I limit myself because I have a way which I think things should be done and that's what's going to help me develop my own style I'm not against adding herbs and things to beer in fact I plan on using ginseng and other natural remedies for relaxation and stress relief, it's the people who don't even think about what they're putting in intelligently. I mean I work really hard on forming my recipes and I think every step of it out and I think just the fact that people have to ask if it's a good idea or what would happen shows that they didn't really put much thought into it.


My thoughts:

If you typed like that over there, without any regard for punctuation, grammar, spelling, I'm not surprised at the outcome. You know what you're trying to say, but readers will strain to decipher what you type. Readers don't want to strain, and your message will get lost, or at least you will not be taken seriously.

Lack of tolerance for other people's ideas is not going to win friends. What sets homebrewers apart from the big commercial breweries is that we dare to try new things with our brewing. "New" might mean something that you don't like, or maybe nobody likes, but stretching boundaries is the name of the game here. I'm sure that 100 IBUs in a beer was considered outlandish only a few years ago.

Rant threads almost NEVER go well here on HBT. I'd guess about 90% of the time the OP regrets it. Good luck.
 
For example one guy had to turn the ac off in his apartment for a week and was worried about his carboy getting too hot so he put it in a bathtub and wrapped a towel around the top and had a hose going to the sink on a steady drip, so I replied "why don't you just fill the bathtub with water?" And some jackwad replied to my comment and said the towel Idea was better because it was a smaller surface area so they're would be less evaporation. And I'm like that makes absolutely no sense, do you have any idea how long it would take an entire bathtub to evaporate?

While I mostly agree with you about beer advocate, the jackwad was correct about the above statement. Unlike BA, I will explain the concept with you vs just say you are wrong.

It is called evaporative cooling. Basically when I liquid evaporates on a surface it draws a small amount of heat from that surface, hence cooling the surface. For this to work, you want a large area of the surface you want to cool to be exposed to the air (so water can evaporate). While a bath tub full of water has more water to evaporate, you are covering up the surfaces that you want evaporative cooling to take place. Placing a towel over the carboy acts like a wick. The towel and the slow drip of water keeps a constant supply of moisture over the surface of the carboy. I hope this helps.

But back to BA. I agree with you 100%. Every time I asked a question I would just get 2 strong opinions that contradicted each other. In the end, I still didn't know what to do. Luckily I found this place and the help here has been wonderful.
 
That's about the long & short of it in my opinion. A couple strong opinions & a bunch of others that don't seem to know or understand that reply anyway.
 
your misunderstanding what I'm saying I aid hops and barley are the main ingredients just because it's a fact they are and I didn't feel like listing every adjunct out there. I'm fine with all grain based Malts and adjusts and I'm also fine with pretty much every kind of sugar out there In fact I've been working on a molasses cookie porter for a while it's just when you add things that give beer a completely uncharacteristic flavor and also I limit myself because I have a way which I think things should be done and that's what's going to help me develop my own style I'm not against adding herbs and things to beer in fact I plan on using ginseng and other natural remedies for relaxation and stress relief, it's the people who don't even think about what they're putting in intelligently. I mean I work really hard on forming my recipes and I think every step of it out and I think just the fact that people have to ask if it's a good idea or what would happen shows that they didn't really put much thought into it.
The thing is .... Its not about what YOUR fine with.... its about what each person is fine with going into THEIR beer.... Your trying to push your opinions on others based upon where you draw your lines on what you feel beer is and isnt... sometimes the strangest indredients have an unexpected pleasant effect on flavor and people might want to know whats been tried and what hasnt when they have an idea...
bottom line is beer has been made with all sorts of crazy ingredients going all the way back to its inception and it would never have evolved to what it is today if it wasnt for experimentation..(beer in early colonial days used pine needles and other substitutes because there were no hops ).. Even many of the German brewers no longer follow their "golden rule"... If you want to be literal and true to the ancient law you cant add yeast since they didnt know it existed back then, it wasn't an allowed ingredient and the beers were originally infected with naturally occurring yeast strains from what I have read... The Belgians make some of the best beers in the world and discovered them by thinking outside the rules of germany... Its really no different than saying potato chips should have salt only on them and any other chip should not be considered a real potato chip if other flavors have been added or its dipped in anything.... Its limiting backwards thinking if you ask me... traditional styles and events limited to those styles are fine but to discriminate against what people choose to make for themselves in their own homes is wrong period. To each his (or her) own.... One of the compelling reasons behind homebrewing is to not be "Limited" to whats being pushed upon the masses by someone else.
 
This thread brings up in my mind a conversation I had at my LHBS yesterday with one of the employees. I was talking to him about a Peach IPA I'm about to brew that had a naysayer because "a good peach is sweet, juicy, and succulent... not bitter, crisp, and dry".

Beer is a product of experimentation. That's why I love breweries like BrewDogs and Dogfish Head so much. They aren't afraid to take risks and experiment with flavors. I've made it a point in home brewing to do the same and slowly push the limits of what I brew.

To quote the LHBS guy "I brew beer that I want to drink".

Aside from the Reinheitsgebot, who says that beer must include hops for example? There are perfectly good styles of beer that have 0 hops, Gruit being one of them. Hops weren't even an original ingredient to beer, but it was still beer. People experimented and added this crazy bitter flower to their beer to balance the sweetness of the malt, and now it's common practice. Who is to say that someone adding something to beer today isn't a new pioneer that is changing the way we view a traditional beer?

*Steps down from soap box*
 
I post on BA and I've read the threads you're talking about man. You're right sometimes people can say some rude stuff on there (even myself sometimes) but overall I haven' noticed it to be too filled with noobs not knowing what they're talking about. I think it all depends on the section of the site you're looking at, some are going to be more popular than others, same as this one.

When it comes to reading forums on the internet, RDWHAB, should be your mantra. Don't take this **** too seriously, it is NOT real despite it's claims to the contrary.
 
Let me preface this to say that I am not a member there, but I do read several beer forums quite regularly. Homebrewtalk seemed to be the only one worth joining.

BeerAdvocate has their own "clique" in the Homebrewing section comprised of a few very regular posters. They are very rude and quick to correct someone, almost seemingly to spite them. They also want to appear smart in front of their posse, but half the time they have no idea what they are talking about. They spout off old techniques from 1970s homebrewing books and scold you for not adhearing to ridiculous BJCP guidelines or doing things the way that you do them.

Surprisingly though, the other forums of BeerAdvocate are very friendly and devoted to helping beginners grow. But the Homebrewing section is a joke. If you visit there for homebrewing advice, you'll hate yourself and end up wanting to quit brewing before you get any constructive criticism that can actually help you.
 
So I was about ready to never come back to beer advocate so I sarcastically posted "do babies ferment?" And then got a message that I'd been banned for trolling.

I liked you just from the thread title.

There's nothing worse than a loudmouth who clearly thinks he's (it's usually a he) smarter than everyone else. Even the phrase IMO separates the men from the boys. On this forum, people generally don't feel the need to chime in when they want to feel smart. And even dumb statements are usually handled with tact and patience.

But I think as a culture we don't understand what trolling actually is. Nobody is going to ferment a baby, it's just funny or not funny. Your post is about as much a waste of time and bandwidth as those shyttie recipes. Except it made me laugh instead of facepalm.

Trolling is when it's believable and you trick people into getting heated. Like asking if anyone else's pet dog loves drinking IPAs, or why women are so much worse at brewing. That'd be a legitimate reason to ban someone.
 
Welcome. But you will probably get some of the same here. From the sounds of the other site it should not be anywhere near as much though.

Also Ketchup - probably not but give it a try... Hot peppers in beer - definitely done. Jalapeno Ales are plentiful. I did one with crushed red pepper, it was very good. Whiskey in beer - another yes. Hard root beer - probably can be done.

Think about it. Shandy's have lemon, Pumpkin ales, Blueberry ales, Blue Moon uses orange. There are a lot of things used in beers. Why limit yourself.

One of my best beers was a change-up on a pumpkin ale. I used spaghetti squash instead of pumpkin. It was great! It had a nice peppery spice flavor.

If you want to use only water, barley malt, hops and water go for it. I also like to use rye, wheat, corn, candi sugar etc. IT IS STILL BEER!!



And your post about fermenting babies is just disgusting......


your misunderstanding what I'm saying I aid hops and barley are the main ingredients just because it's a fact they are and I didn't feel like listing every adjunct out there. I'm fine with all grain based Malts and adjusts and I'm also fine with pretty much every kind of sugar out there In fact I've been working on a molasses cookie porter for a while it's just when you add things that give beer a completely uncharacteristic flavor and also I limit myself because I have a way which I think things should be done and that's what's going to help me develop my own style I'm not against adding herbs and things to beer in fact I plan on using ginseng and other natural remedies for relaxation and stress relief, it's the people who don't even think about what they're putting in intelligently. I mean I work really hard on forming my recipes and I think every step of it out and I think just the fact that people have to ask if it's a good idea or what would happen shows that they didn't really put much thought into it.
 
your misunderstanding what I'm saying I aid hops and barley are the main ingredients just because it's a fact they are and I didn't feel like listing every adjunct out there. I'm fine with all grain based Malts and adjusts and I'm also fine with pretty much every kind of sugar out there In fact I've been working on a molasses cookie porter for a while it's just when you add things that give beer a completely uncharacteristic flavor and also I limit myself because I have a way which I think things should be done and that's what's going to help me develop my own style I'm not against adding herbs and things to beer in fact I plan on using ginseng and other natural remedies for relaxation and stress relief, it's the people who don't even think about what they're putting in intelligently. I mean I work really hard on forming my recipes and I think every step of it out and I think just the fact that people have to ask if it's a good idea or what would happen shows that they didn't really put much thought into it.

your misunderstanding what I'm saying I aid hops and barley are the main ingredients just because it's a fact they are and I didn't feel like listing every adjunct out there. I'm fine with all grain based Malts and adjusts and I'm also fine with pretty much every kind of sugar out there In fact I've been working on a molasses cookie porter for a while it's just when you add things that give beer a completely uncharacteristic flavor and also I limit myself because I have a way which I think things should be done and that's what's going to help me develop my own style I'm not against adding herbs and things to beer in fact I plan on using ginseng and other natural remedies for relaxation and stress relief, it's the people who don't even think about what they're putting in intelligently. I mean I work really hard on forming my recipes and I think every step of it out and I think just the fact that people have to ask if it's a good idea or what would happen shows that they didn't really put much thought into it.

this has to be a record of some type: longest time between a double post, ever
 
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