How does this brown ale recipe look?

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worlddivides

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Kinda going for something Northern English style along the lines of a Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale kind of thing. Not a clone or anything remotely like that, of course. Just as a general idea of the ballpark I'm going for. It's been quite a few years since the last time I brewed a brown ale, but they've always been among my favorite beers I've brewed. I think the areas I'd most want advice on are water chemistry. I briefly considered also using EKG, but I'm thinking just Northern Brewer at 60 and Fuggles at 15 minutes should be fine. Since I'm not really going for an American brown ale style, I prefer just one or two hop additions. Also, I originally considered adding 2% Crystal 150L, but I thought it probably wasn't worth it. Also considered maybe adding flaked oats, and that does sound tempting, but I'm not so sure. I also considered maybe using Windsor instead of S-04, but I think Windsor might make it a bit too sweet and have too high of an FG, especially since I'm already mashing at 68C, but I could be convinced otherwise. On the other hand, Nottingham might dry it out more than I want. S-04 is not the most characteristic English ale yeast, but I've always enjoyed it as an all-rounder for stouts, brown ales, and certain kinds of IPAs. Also, probably won't brew this for another month or so, but I wanted some feedback since it's been on my mind.

Water Chemistry Adjustments (added before mash):
Half a Campden tablet
2 grams calcium chloride (dihydrate)
2.7 grams gypsum (calcium sulfate)
5 grams baking soda

Grain bill:
2.4kg of Maris Otter malt (80%)
300g of Crystal 60L (10%)
150g of amber malt (5%)
150g of chocolate malt (5%)

Mashed at: 68C for about 1 hour (add grains at 71C)
Total Water Volume: 19.5 liters

Hops:
8 grams of Northern Brewer hops (pellet – 10.7% AA) for 60 minutes
10 grams of Fuggle hops (pellet – 4.5% AA) for 15 minutes

Other:
Servomyces - add last 10 minutes of boil
Whirlfloc - add last 5 minutes of boil

Fermentation:
Fermented with Safale S-04 at 17-19C for 2 weeks
Kegged, then carbonated to 2.25 CO2 levels.
(I normally put gelatin in all of my beers when I keg them, but there have been a few stouts where I've just cold crashed and kegged without gelatin because it's too dark to really tell anyway. So still thinking about that on this one too).

Estimated results of:
SRM: 25
IBUs: 24
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV: 4.88%
 
Depending on what you have in mind, the crystal might be a bit dominant. I'd probably go with 5% to 7%, but that's personal taste. You will end up in pretty dark territory with that amount of chocolate malt. Completely fine if that's what you're after, but I would cut it down by one or two percent.

Anyway, both is clearly a matter of personal taste, your version is fine as well.

Maybe up the ibus to 30 or 35 though... Again, personal taste.
 
Depending on what you have in mind, the crystal might be a bit dominant. I'd probably go with 5% to 7%, but that's personal taste. You will end up in pretty dark territory with that amount of chocolate malt. Completely fine if that's what you're after, but I would cut it down by one or two percent.

Anyway, both is clearly a matter of personal taste, your version is fine as well.

Maybe up the ibus to 30 or 35 though... Again, personal taste.
Crystal being a bit dominant is exactly what I'm going for, so no issues there. I am, however, thinking of maybe reducing the chocolate by one or two percent. I could also see taking the IBUs up to 27 and maybe a max of 30, but I think 35 would be a bit too much.

One thing I am thinking about is what if I boosted the amber malt and changed the grain bill like this:

2.4kg of Maris Otter malt (80%)
300g of Crystal 60L (10%)
200g of amber malt (6.7%)
100g of chocolate malt (3.3%)

This would lower the SRM from 25 to 21, reduce some of the chocolate character, and would slightly increase the amber malt character. I might also increase the Northern Brewer from 8 grams to 10 grams, which would get me 28 IBUs. I've seen every malting company (such as Crisp, for example) say up to 5% amber and a lot of places say only 1% or 2% amber (Simpsons, though, recommends 5% to 20%). I've typically seen the highest amounts of amber malt in brown ales, but I am pushing it up going 6.7% amber malt here. I think brown ale is a style where that could work nicely, though.
 
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Crystal being a bit dominant is exactly what I'm going for, so no issues there. I am, however, thinking of maybe reducing the chocolate by one or two percent. I could also see taking the IBUs up to 27 and maybe a max of 30, but I think 35 would be a bit too much.

One thing I am thinking about is what if I boosted the amber malt and changed the grain bill like this:

2.4kg of Maris Otter malt (80%)
300g of Crystal 60L (10%)
200g of amber malt (6.7%)
100g of chocolate malt (3.3%)

This would lower the SRM from 25 to 21, reduce some of the chocolate character, and would slightly increase the amber malt character. I might also increase the Northern Brewer from 8 grams to 10 grams, which would get me 28 IBUs. I've seen every malting company (such as Crisp, for example) say up to 5% amber and a lot of places say only 1% or 2% amber (Simpsons, though, recommends 5% to 20%). I've typically seen the highest amounts of amber malt in brown ales, but I am pushing it up going 6.7% amber malt here. I think brown ale is a style where that could work nicely, though.
My guess is that amber malt is highly maltster dependent, just as brown malt is. They probably differ heavily from maltster to maltster so my method would be to stay in the middle of the suggested range of the maltster that made your specific amber malt. I've made beer with too much amber in it and it was horribly acrid. Not recommended. I don't remember how much and also not from which maltster it was. But it wasn't North of 15%.
 
British brown ales are sweet so you need extra crystal malt, if you should reduce the Crystal 60 then use about 7% of dark crystal. From Crisp website for Crystal 400 (158-181 L)
I wasn't thinking of reducing the Crystal 60L below 10%, but do you think it'd be better to, say, have 5% Crystal 60L and 5% Crystal 150L?
 
My guess is that amber malt is highly maltster dependent, just as brown malt is. They probably differ heavily from maltster to maltster so my method would be to stay in the middle of the suggested range of the maltster that made your specific amber malt. I've made beer with too much amber in it and it was horribly acrid. Not recommended. I don't remember how much and also not from which maltster it was. But it wasn't North of 15%.
In that case, I guess I'll reduce it back down to 5% to be on the safe side. I certainly don't want it to be acrid. I don't think I've ever used more than 3% or 4% amber in previous ales, but I never got any acrid character. It could be maltster-dependent, but I have seen others say that too much amber can be unpleasant.
 
Here’s Meanbrew’s recipe for a Northern English Brown

Malts (4.55 kg)

3.67 kg (80.7%) — Maris Otter Pale Malt, Maris Otter — Grain — 3 SRM

360 g (7.9%) — Biscuit Malt — Grain — 23 SRM

320 g (7%) — Thomas Fawcett Crystal Malt 60L — Grain — 81 SRM

110 g (2.4%) — Thomas Fawcett Dark Crystal Malt — Grain — 110 SRM

90 g (2%) — Crisp Chocolate Malt — Grain — 530 SRM
 
Here’s Meanbrew’s recipe for a Northern English Brown

Malts (4.55 kg)

3.67 kg (80.7%) — Maris Otter Pale Malt, Maris Otter — Grain — 3 SRM

360 g (7.9%) — Biscuit Malt — Grain — 23 SRM

320 g (7%) — Thomas Fawcett Crystal Malt 60L — Grain — 81 SRM

110 g (2.4%) — Thomas Fawcett Dark Crystal Malt — Grain — 110 SRM

90 g (2%) — Crisp Chocolate Malt — Grain — 530 SRM
Interesting. 7.9% amber malt (since "biscuit malt" and "amber malt" are basically the same thing). It does kind of tempt me to increase my amber malt from 5% to 6.7% or so, but I do know that 3-5% is a more common percentage in more malty British ales, so I'll probably just leave it there.

I do tend to use darker crystal in porters and stouts, but so far I've mainly stuck to more medium crystal for brown ales. Your suggestion of the darker crystal did make me consider the kind of effect splitting that 10% between medium and darker crystal could have on a brown ale's flavor. Doing 6-7% 60L and 3-4% 150L could be an interesting thing to try (in my recent stout, it was kind of reversed with around 3.2% Crystal 150L and 1.6% Crystal 60L, but with 6.3% chocolate malt, 6.3% flaked barley, and 3.2% roasted barley with the remaining 76.2% Maris Otter - came out tasting really nice).
 
Kinda going for something Northern English style along the lines of a Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale kind of thing. Not a clone or anything remotely like that, of course. Just as a general idea of the ballpark I'm going for. It's been quite a few years since the last time I brewed a brown ale, but they've always been among my favorite beers I've brewed. I think the areas I'd most want advice on are water chemistry. I briefly considered also using EKG, but I'm thinking just Northern Brewer at 60 and Fuggles at 15 minutes should be fine. Since I'm not really going for an American brown ale style, I prefer just one or two hop additions. Also, I originally considered adding 2% Crystal 150L, but I thought it probably wasn't worth it. Also considered maybe adding flaked oats, and that does sound tempting, but I'm not so sure. I also considered maybe using Windsor instead of S-04, but I think Windsor might make it a bit too sweet and have too high of an FG, especially since I'm already mashing at 68C, but I could be convinced otherwise. On the other hand, Nottingham might dry it out more than I want. S-04 is not the most characteristic English ale yeast, but I've always enjoyed it as an all-rounder for stouts, brown ales, and certain kinds of IPAs. Also, probably won't brew this for another month or so, but I wanted some feedback since it's been on my mind.

Water Chemistry Adjustments (added before mash):
Half a Campden tablet
2 grams calcium chloride (dihydrate)
2.7 grams gypsum (calcium sulfate)
5 grams baking soda

Grain bill:
2.4kg of Maris Otter malt (80%)
300g of Crystal 60L (10%)
150g of amber malt (5%)
150g of chocolate malt (5%)

Mashed at: 68C for about 1 hour (add grains at 71C)
Total Water Volume: 19.5 liters

Hops:
8 grams of Northern Brewer hops (pellet – 10.7% AA) for 60 minutes
10 grams of Fuggle hops (pellet – 4.5% AA) for 15 minutes

Other:
Servomyces - add last 10 minutes of boil
Whirlfloc - add last 5 minutes of boil

Fermentation:
Fermented with Safale S-04 at 17-19C for 2 weeks
Kegged, then carbonated to 2.25 CO2 levels.
(I normally put gelatin in all of my beers when I keg them, but there have been a few stouts where I've just cold crashed and kegged without gelatin because it's too dark to really tell anyway. So still thinking about that on this one too).

Estimated results of:
SRM: 25
IBUs: 24
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV: 4.88%
Looks tasty to me as well - if you want the nut brown color, you should use a little less dark roasted barley to get the SRM to about 14-16 instead of 24.
 
i’m convinced you get a little nuttiness in these beers from a very small addition of roasted barley. I’ve tried making Irish Red several times using 2 or 3 oz of roasted barley instead of chocolate for color and my notes all have comments about a nutty flavor more like Newcastle brown ale. If it matters I usually have Breiss roasted barley.

I’ve made brown ale in the past that took first place in a couple competitions using only a mixture of dark extract and light extract for fermentable.
 
i’m convinced you get a little nuttiness in these beers from a very small addition of roasted barley. I’ve tried making Irish Red several times using 2 or 3 oz of roasted barley instead of chocolate for color and my notes all have comments about a nutty flavor more like Newcastle brown ale. If it matters I usually have Breiss roasted barley.

I’ve made brown ale in the past that took first place in a couple competitions using only a mixture of dark extract and light extract for fermentable.
Irish red is supposed to be made with roasted barley, chocolate malt would be uncommon.

I always get nuttyness from chocolate malt but never from black malt or roasted barley. That's why I usually use the latter two, I don't like nuttyness that much... But I'm also a bit sensible because of the almond madness I had to cope with for a range of my brews (pro tip: don't use oxidised, premilled malt.... Ever!).
 
I think splitting the crystal %’s would work but so would your existing recipe.

I do like the idea, though, so I'm thinking of maybe something like this:

Grain bill:
2.4kg of Maris Otter malt (81.4%)
300g of Crystal 60L (6.8%)
100g of Crystal 150L (3.4%)
150g of amber malt (5.1%)
100g of chocolate malt (3.4%)

Hops:
10 grams of Northern Brewer hops (pellet – 10.7% AA) for 60 minutes
10 grams of Fuggle hops (pellet – 4.5% AA) for 15 minutes

Estimated results of:
SRM: 21
IBUs: 29
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV: 4.81%
 
I thought Northern brown nail was a little less sweet. I really enjoyed the nut castle recipe in brewing classic styles.
As far as I'm aware, Southern browns tend to be lower ABV, sweeter, and darker, while Northern browns tend to be higher ABV (relatively, that is. It's just that Southern browns can be like 3% ABV, while Northerns might be 5% ABV), dryer (still sweet, but maybe an FG of 1.012 in the North versus 1.014 in the South), and lighter. It's just talking about trends, though.
 
Looks tasty to me as well - if you want the nut brown color, you should use a little less dark roasted barley to get the SRM to about 14-16 instead of 24.
I'll probably go with an SRM of around 21 or so, though you're definitely right that the nut brown color would be a bit lighter.
 
i’m convinced you get a little nuttiness in these beers from a very small addition of roasted barley. I’ve tried making Irish Red several times using 2 or 3 oz of roasted barley instead of chocolate for color and my notes all have comments about a nutty flavor more like Newcastle brown ale. If it matters I usually have Breiss roasted barley.

I’ve made brown ale in the past that took first place in a couple competitions using only a mixture of dark extract and light extract for fermentable.
It could be a difference in palate, because I don't think I've ever gotten any nuttiness from roasted barley or black barley. I do get a bit of that from chocolate malt, though.

The first brown ale I made (in 2015) used Ultra Light LME as the base with five specialty grains and fermented with the Best of Both Worlds liquid yeast. It turned out pretty good.
 
As far as I'm aware, Southern browns tend to be lower ABV, sweeter, and darker, while Northern browns tend to be higher ABV (relatively, that is. It's just that Southern browns can be like 3% ABV, while Northerns might be 5% ABV), dryer (still sweet, but maybe an FG of 1.012 in the North versus 1.014 in the South), and lighter. It's just talking about trends, though.
Y'all aren't reading enough Barclay Perkins. :D
 
I do like the idea, though, so I'm thinking of maybe something like this:

Grain bill:
2.4kg of Maris Otter malt (81.4%)
300g of Crystal 60L (6.8%)
100g of Crystal 150L (3.4%)
150g of amber malt (5.1%)
100g of chocolate malt (3.4%)

Hops:
10 grams of Northern Brewer hops (pellet – 10.7% AA) for 60 minutes
10 grams of Fuggle hops (pellet – 4.5% AA) for 15 minutes

Estimated results of:
SRM: 21
IBUs: 29
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV: 4.81%
Looking good go and brew it. What yeast are you using I would suggest Nottingham or at a push US05.
 
Looking good go and brew it. What yeast are you using I would suggest Nottingham or at a push US05.
I was thinking (in order or likelihood):

1. S-04 (as I mentioned above, it's not the most characteristic yeast, but I've always enjoyed it as an all-rounder for stouts, brown ales, and even some IPAs)
2. Windsor (I like how it tastes, but I am worried about the potential of it getting a little too sweet possibly)
3. Nottingham (I like how Nottingham tastes, but it has higher attenuation than S-04 or Windsor and I was thinking Nottingham might dry it out a little more than I want)

What do you think? I'm not going for cloyingly sweet brown ale, but I do want a decent amount of residual sweetness. Do you think the 68C mash temp should be enough for that if I go with Nottingham?
 
I do like the idea, though, so I'm thinking of maybe something like this:

Grain bill:
2.4kg of Maris Otter malt (81.4%)
300g of Crystal 60L (6.8%)
100g of Crystal 150L (3.4%)
150g of amber malt (5.1%)
100g of chocolate malt (3.4%)

Hops:
10 grams of Northern Brewer hops (pellet – 10.7% AA) for 60 minutes
10 grams of Fuggle hops (pellet – 4.5% AA) for 15 minutes

Estimated results of:
SRM: 21
IBUs: 29
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV: 4.81%
I'd drink that!

I'd use 04, that's my go to stout yeast. Should work well here as well. Notti might be too attenuating.
 
I wouldn’t touch Windsor too many instances of it stalling. US04 will certainly do the job.
I've only used it twice. Once for an ESB and once for a sweet stout. So I haven't used it enough to really know about the stalling, just the somewhat low attenuation. S-04, on the other hand, I've probably used 20 to 30 times by now.
 
I've only used it twice. Once for an ESB and once for a sweet stout. So I haven't used it enough to really know about the stalling, just the somewhat low attenuation. S-04, on the other hand, I've probably used 20 to 30 times by now.
I've also made plenty of good to great beers with S04 but none with Windsor. I have tried that notti/windsor 50/50 thing but I prefer Notti on it's own. But if you are after the Windsor esters, this is certainly a way to omit the stalling and get decent attenuation, if not too much for this brew.
 
I do like the character of Windsor, but its attenuation is typically around 60%, which makes me mainly want to use it for beers where I'm increasing the fermentability of the wort quite a bit and want a sweet end-result or where the basic idea of the beer is for an above-average amount of sweetness (such as in a sweet stout). The 50/50 Nottingham/Windsor idea is an interesting one I've heard before, but I'm not sure if the price of the two yeasts would be that much of an improvement over just regular S-04. Plus, I'd also imagine I might get a mixture of Windsor's esters and Nottingham's esters but with attenuation closer to Nottingham, which isn't a bad idea by any means. Would probably make a pretty tasty beer, but I'm leaning towards just using S-04 right now.
 
I do like the character of Windsor, but its attenuation is typically around 60%, which makes me mainly want to use it for beers where I'm increasing the fermentability of the wort quite a bit and want a sweet end-result or where the basic idea of the beer is for an above-average amount of sweetness (such as in a sweet stout). The 50/50 Nottingham/Windsor idea is an interesting one I've heard before, but I'm not sure if the price of the two yeasts would be that much of an improvement over just regular S-04. Plus, I'd also imagine I might get a mixture of Windsor's esters and Nottingham's esters but with attenuation closer to Nottingham, which isn't a bad idea by any means. Would probably make a pretty tasty beer, but I'm leaning towards just using S-04 right now.
S04 is an absolutely solid choice. You cannot go wrong with that. Brew it with s04 this time and maybe next time you switch the yeast.
 
S04 is an absolutely solid choice. You cannot go wrong with that. Brew it with s04 this time and maybe next time you switch the yeast.
I do think I'd like to try Windsor with maybe a Southern English brown ale that's shooting for 3.5% ABV or so. Or maybe a mild. Or a really sessionable oatmeal stout.
 
I do think I'd like to try Windsor with maybe a Southern English brown ale that's shooting for 3.5% ABV or so. Or maybe a mild. Or a really sessionable oatmeal stout.
The lower the abv the lower is the yeast expression. When brewing dark milds in the 3% range, I cannot find differences between yeasts anymore. Unless it's something really high attenuating but even then it becomes hard to really taste the difference.
 
I dont think amber and biscuit malt are the same at all. Amber malt can be harsh, but ive always found biscuit to be nutty ish and lovely. I used dingemans though, not sure if other brands are the same
 

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