How does adding puree affect final volume?

[dan46nbrew]

I'm working out a recipe for a raspberry saison and not sure how adding x gallons of puree to the end of primary fermentation will affect final volume when it completes fermentation. Does anyone have any guidelines on this?

 

[Jag75]

I've only used it once. I normally use blueberries but decided to pick up a can of Oregons fruit puree at the LHBS. 3#can for a 5 gallon batch. You don't need as much puree as you do if you use whole fruit.

Not sure there's any guidelines per say. It depends on the flavor your searching for . It may take you multiple brews to figure out your amounts.

 

[IslandLizard]

You're basically adding a watery liquid to a watery liquid, so just add the volumes. That will approximate your total final volume close enough. Now some of the puree's thicker non-watery parts (skins, etc.) will remain behind as trub in the bottom. I'm estimating 5% of the Oregon's Raspberry Puree consists or those solids when compacted, but not sure, never measured it.

 

[dan46nbrew]

You're basically adding a watery liquid to a watery liquid, so just add the volumes. That will approximate your total final volume close enough. Now some of the puree's thicker non-watery parts (skins, etc.) will remain behind as trub in the bottom. I'm estimating 5% of the Oregon's Raspberry Puree consists or those solids when compacted, but not sure, never measured it.

Thats what I was thinking as well. However on Beersmith 3 I can add 44lbs of a puree which is 5 gallons of liquid and it doesn't change the amount of mash or spare water needed. It's being added to primary fermentation on the software. Not sure what I'm missing...

 

[IslandLizard]

Not sure what I'm missing...

Using common sense?

 

[dan46nbrew]

Using common sense?

Guess I don't have any. How does adding 5 gallons of liquid not affect the amount of sparge/mash water needed to reach the final volume? From your previous post you said to basically add it to the final volume but thats not what Beersmith is coming up with.

 

[IslandLizard]

How does adding 5 gallons of liquid not affect the amount of sparge/mash water needed to reach the final volume? From your previous post you said to basically add it to the final volume

That's what I'd do, yes.
Added to primary or secondary, similar results volume-wise. Now, most sugars from the fruit puree will ferment out and become alcohol and CO2. When alcohol and water are mixed the liquids contract somewhat, reducing the overall volume somewhat. Say, if that contraction is 10%, 90% is still added to the total volume.
But there's also a lot of water in the puree, and that will only add 100% to the volume.

https://www.mathscinotes.com/2016/07/volume-reduction-in-ethanol-water-mixtures/

but thats not what Beersmith is coming up with.

Maybe BS doesn't calculate it correctly. You can take that up with Brad Smith.

 

[hotbeer]

I don't use Beersmith. But in your first question you ask how much volume adding puree to the fermenter adds. However in your response you seem to be puzzled why that doesn't affect mash and sparging calculations.

Are you asking two different things? You shouldn't be adding puree to the mash IMO.

 

[Jaybird]

Final volume will be affected by "about" 75-80% of puree by volume you add to fermenter. Depending on the type of puree your adding it will contain about 20-25% solids that you will in turn remove during transfer to packaging. This is my experience anyhow.
If your adding 1 gallon of puree to fermenter AFTER the brewing process then you should see about 3 quarts by volume in the final transfer to packaging.

Cheers
Jay

 

[dan46nbrew]

I don't use Beersmith. But in your first question you ask how much volume adding puree to the fermenter adds. However in your response you seem to be puzzled why that doesn't affect mash and sparging calculations.

Are you asking two different things? You shouldn't be adding puree to the mash IMO.

The puree will be added towards the end of fermentation, maybe 10 points above expected FG. In Beersmith I have a final volume of 11.5 gallons. If I add the 5 gallons of puree or delete it, the amount of mash and sparge volume (which will determine final volume after boil off) does not change. So this wasn't making sense to me because clearly adding 5 gallons of puree will increase the final volume by some amount so the sparge and mash volume would need to be reduced, but it doesn't change in beersmith....

 

[dan46nbrew]

Final volume will be affected by "about" 75-80% of puree by volume you add to fermenter. Depending on the type of puree your adding it will contain about 20-25% solids that you will in turn remove during transfer to packaging. This is my experience anyhow.
If your adding 1 gallon of puree to fermenter AFTER the brewing process then you should see about 3 quarts by volume in the final transfer to packaging.

Cheers
Jay

Thanks Jay, that info will help me adjust the volumes more accurately...

 

[The M]

The puree will be added towards the end of fermentation, maybe 10 points above expected FG.

My two cents for adding puree: I used to add fruit puree to my sours as you're planning to do, few points above expected FG. Someone in this forum wrote that you'll lose some of the aroma if you're going to add the puree before fermentation is over. I switched to adding puree after I reached my FG and got stronger aroma from my fruit sours ever since. You're not doing anything wrong, just one thing to consider Best of luck with your saison, sounds delicious