How do I get roasty flavor without color?

[kanzimonson]

I've been thinking a lot about amber and red ales recently and how I'd like to make a beer with some strong pronounced roasty flavors but still maintain a red color.

You'll see in my Recipe tab that I have an Irish Red. I really love this beer, but its roasty character is "medium." It's a mostly caramelly beer with a crisp, dry finish. Nothing chocolatey or burnt, just toasty and mellow. Like the crust on a loaf of bread straight out of the oven, or the bottom side of a biscuit.

The beer, however, is so red that it's allllllmost brown. I really wouldn't want to increase its color the slightest bit. So my question is, if I wanted to make an amber ale that has both caramel flavors, and a strongly toasted finish, what do I do? Should I use a lot of the "toasty" malts like munich, aromatic, victory, special roast? Or should I reduce the crystal amounts and use more dark grains? I don't want to completely lose the crystal flavors, either.

 

[malkore]

what are you using for base malt?

the difference between say, briess 2-row and marris otter can change the whole brew.

 

[david_42]

Roasty and toasty aren't the same flavor. If you want toasty, victory/biscuit is your best choice. Roasty flavor come from the darkest malts, not much you can do to get them without the color.

 

[kanzimonson]

malkore, I actually did use MO.

david, I ultimately agree, but I think there's a spectrum shift from toasty to roasty and I essentially want to up the degree to a higher level. The small quantities of dark grains in an amber or red ale fall into the spectrum, and because they're so light I don't think it's unreasonable to say they're both toasty and roasty. But your saying this definitely has me leaning towards the victory/biscuit/aromatic.

 

[kanzimonson]

And the more I think about it, I wonder if using a different yeast would be better. I used 1968 London ESB because I love the way it super emphasizes the malt. I assumed this would increase the toast and roast, but I also wonder if the higher FG due to high flocculation leaves just enough sweetness that the harsher grain flavors become more subdued?

 

[TBrosBrewing]

http://www.stonebrew.com/news/100401b/

Here is the press release for Stone and Brew Dog's attempt at something similar. Their answer was cask and coffee aging.

 

[remilard]

You could try steeping roasted grains only and running the resulting liquor through a charcoal filter. It will remove color and it will remove flavor, not sure which it will remove more of.

 

[Malticulous]

IMO pale chocolate gives the most with the least color.

 

[Howie]

IMO pale chocolate gives the most with the least color.

I was going to suggest something like this. The lighter the roast level, the more of it you could use. The pale chocolate is around 200L. Briess also makes a roasted barley that's 300L

 

[kanzimonson]

http://www.stonebrew.com/news/100401b/

Here is the press release for Stone and Brew Dog's attempt at something similar. Their answer was cask and coffee aging.

That was an April Fool's joke.

 

[Edcculus]

Why not use debittered black malt like Carafa III? Thats your best option for color with little flavor.

 

[jaginger]

Why not use debittered black malt like Carafa III? Thats your best option for color with little flavor.

Looking for the opposite I believe -- flavor without color.

 

[Malticulous]

Coffee malt may work too. I've not used it much but what I have is 165L.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Toast some of your base malt in the oven - that will give you a more robust flavor. Then add Biscuit/Victory malt and as much roasted malt until the color gets as dark as you are willing to tolerate. A third of a pound of pale chocolate malt would probably do the trick.

 

[pjj2ba]

You can also try some brown malt. Use it in place of some of your base malt. It will darken your beer a little, but it will provide a few roasty notes