Hops for a full boil

[Morrey]

Preparing to do a couple of lagers soon, one a Vienna Lager and the other a Dark Lager a friend has designed which is out of sight. I'll add upfront his Dark Lager has 3 hop additions where the Vienna only has one at 60.

Getting to the point....Hops used (only) for a full 60 minute boil.

I have always been under the impression that a 60 minute bittering addition pretty well (only) bitters your beer while later additions provide flavors and aromas. The Vienna recipe I plan to use only has one Tettnanger hop addition at the 60 minute mark to bring me to 21 IBUs. If all I have read is true that I won't get much other than bitterness from the 60 Tettnang addition, why does it really matter that the hop I use is actually Tettnanger? Why not Magnum or Simcoe....provided I target 21 IBUs. I am only getting bittering...right?

Or why not use some of the CTZ CO2 extract I always use for bittering? Maybe go 11 IBU's with the extract, then add a bit of Tettnanger later in the boil to make up the extra 10 IBU's I need and get some flavor from the hop?

I think I want more than non-descript bitterness. What is the general consensus? Thanks!!

 

[MSK_Chess]

Preparing to do a couple of lagers soon, one a Vienna Lager and the other a Dark Lager a friend has designed which is out of sight. I'll add upfront his Dark Lager has 3 hop additions where the Vienna only has one at 60.

Getting to the point....Hops used (only) for a full 60 minute boil.

I have always been under the impression that a 60 minute bittering addition pretty well (only) bitters your beer while later additions provide flavors and aromas. The Vienna recipe I plan to use only has one Tettnanger hop addition at the 60 minute mark to bring me to 21 IBUs. If all I have read is true that I won't get much other than bitterness from the 60 Tettnang addition, why does it really matter that the hop I use is actually Tettnanger? Why not Magnum or Simcoe....provided I target 21 IBUs. I am only getting bittering...right?

Or why not use some of the CTZ CO2 extract I always use for bittering? Maybe go 11 IBU's with the extract, then add a bit of Tettnanger later in the boil to make up the extra 10 IBU's I need and get some flavor from the hop?

I think I want more than non-descript bitterness. What is the general consensus? Thanks!!

Its rather interesting. I just poured a beer away, a German lager allegedly made in Dresden that used hop extracts. I could tell a mile away, it had none of the floral herbal nuances of a beer made with whole hops.

Why make a Vienna lager with emphasis on toasted malt flavours and then subdue it with hops?

 

[Morrey]

So, do you believe a 60 minute hop addition imparts not only bittering, but hop flavor and aroma as well?

 

[MSK_Chess]

A full 60 min will impart mostly bittering yes and maybe a little flavour and aroma, but thats ok because its a Vienna lager and is malt forward anyway. The thing is I have some reservations about using European hops the same way we use American hops and expecting the same kind of results. European hops are much more subdued and herbal, American hops bold and fruity.

 

[thenugsmoustache]

I do believe there is a flavor/aroma contribution from a 60 minute addition. As to why to use a particular variety for bittering, its because of the differing mixture of acids and oils in each hop variety. For example if you target a certain IBU number with say Horizon hops which have a low co-humulone content and try to match that IBU number with say Chinook hops which are high in co-humulone than you will more than likely end up with a beer with a stronger perception of bitterness. Also you need to remember that the IBU is a calculated number but taste and perception of flavors is very subjective. Not to mention that when actually measured IBU numbers vary wildly over and under the calculated number. You could try it with the extract and you will make beer, but it may not be the same as your friends. If I were you I would probably do the recipe as written then decide on the next go around how to tweak it.

 

[Morrey]

I do believe there is a flavor/aroma contribution from a 60 minute addition. As to why to use a particular variety for bittering, its because of the differing mixture of acids and oils in each hop variety. For example if you target a certain IBU number with say Horizon hops which have a low co-humulone content and try to match that IBU number with say Chinook hops which are high in co-humulone than you will more than likely end up with a beer with a stronger perception of bitterness. Also you need to remember that the IBU is a calculated number but taste and perception of flavors is very subjective. Not to mention that when actually measured IBU numbers vary wildly over and under the calculated number. You could try it with the extract and you will make beer, but it may not be the same as your friends. If I were you I would probably do the recipe as written then decide on the next go around how to tweak it.

I think the feedback I've gotten has helped me move past the thoughts I have that 60 minute additions are for bittering only....and provide no other hop profile benefit. This is one of those questions that experience is helpful to resolve, hence my appreciation of your collective responses.

I have the hops it calls for....Tettnanger. I can easily use BeerSmith to calculate an IBU number for one 60 minute addition. The prevailing school of thought is that there is at least some nuance that a 60 minute hop will impart. I am going with that. Thanks!