Hop stand only vs. dry hop only

[CyberFox]

Has anyone tried making an IPA like one of the following?:
Hop stand only (no dry hop)
Dry hop only (no hop stand)

If so, what were the results and what would you consider the best technique to get the most hop flavor?


Thanks

 

[Aggie10]

Has anyone tried making an IPA like one of the following?:
Hop stand only (no dry hop)
Dry hop only (no hop stand)

If so, what were the results and what would you consider the best technique to get the most hop flavor?


Thanks

The basic jist is that you can successfully do a hopstand only or dry hop only, depending on your goal.

These are generalizations, but hopstand only will tend to less sharp bitterness than hot side additions and more towards flavor and aroma. Add more hops than a recipe lists for hot side additions, 20% more or so. Dry hop only will add least bitterness and most fresh flavor and especially aroma. Again add more than recipe.

For Pale Ales and IPAs I usually only add hops in hopstand, as I'm seeking smooth rounded fruity bitterness and flavor and aroma over sharp bitterness. Downside is you need more hops than stated in most recipes, and I do sense that the hop flavor and aroma fades over time compared to hot side additions...but maybe that's just me?

Combining hot side, hopstand and dry hop additions is likely a general best practice, but I seek simple and quick and hopstand only works for my ale goals.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am not sure they can be swapped as equivalent, but...

Last year I brewed a few batches of a Pale Ale. I wanted to try fermenting in a keg, but I was not sure how I would dry hop in the keg without having to open the lid. I decided to move the 2 oz of dry hops into a steep/whirlpool at 180F. I was very happy with how the Pale Ale turned out. It had a nice level of hop flavor and aroma.

While I had brewed a few hazies with hop steeps, I had avoiding doing that for my existing APA and IPA recipes/batches. It is a rather manual process for me and adds another 20 minutes to the brew day with the hassle of dropping temps down from boiling to my steep temp. Given the amount of hop flavor and aroma I seemed to get out of that steep, it made me rethink that and open up to adding steeps more often.

I am not sure which is easier, as both dry hopping and steeping adds some complexity and/or time. I tend to think that dry hop additions will give more intense and fresh hop character. I have seen a number of IPA recipes that have shifted the vast majority of the hops to dry hop additions (say 2 oz whirlpool and 10 oz dry hop).

 

[DBhomebrew]

+1 @CascadesBrewer I've had much the same experiences.

Dry hops are tough for me due to the conflict between brewer's and family's schedule. I bottle once the littles are sleeping, but you never know when you're going to catch an early enough night. Dry hops are a clock I can't subscribe to.

So, I started doing a whirlpool once my wort hits 175 during the slow-ish water bath chilling. Between that and first wort hops, I'm enjoying the hop character more than I do with dry hops. Plenty of flavor.

Note - I brew mostly easy drinking British pales, not WC or hazies.

 

[WesBrew]

Brulosophy has an Xbeeriment video on this that might be worth a watch. Drinkers preferred the dry hop version but as someone noted above i'm feeling that the dry hop fades. i'm thinkng a good old school blend of all three, unless you're going for a juicy lower bitterness NEIPA.

 

[Panderson1]

Pretty sure most of the ipa kits i started with (2011) never had a hop stand and some never had a dry hop step. Either way the beers usually ended up terrible lol.

 

[CyberFox]

I've also noticed that more IPAs are putting most of their hops in the dry hop, which is making me question what's the most effective hopping technique. I've never been able to get anywhere close to that "smell it from 3 feet away" aroma when I dry hop. Dry hopping is also a pain in the ass when it comes to transferring, but maybe that's just me. I've had really good commercial beer that has awesome flavor, but barely any aroma. I've also found some of those same beers in the back of the fridge that turned out to be 1.5 years old (sacrilegious, I know ) and they still had loads of hop flavor, which blew me away. I can only assume that the flavor from the hop stand stuck around because I seriously doubt dry hops could last that long. I'm planning to do a hop stand only beer because I'm mainly after long-lasting flavor and it might be a better bang for the buck than dry hopping. Plus, I could save some money on hops and some of my sanity while transferring.

 

[Aggie10]

Kinda same thinking that I have.

I believe that hop additions at all phases is likely best, but I have limited brewing time. So, I have made the choice to focus on hopstand, and tinker with it to get reasonable results that I'm looking for in ales.

As long as you understand the fundamental benefits and limitations of any brewing technique, you can develop your own method that works for you...with tradeoffs of course!

 

[mashpaddled]

I mostly stopped doing late boil additions in favor of hop stands because it gets similar flavor and aroma with more freshness and complexity due to not boiling off compounds. I don't think the taste and flavor addition is the same as a dry hop. Dry hopping gets more of the raw hop flavor and especially aroma in the beer. For IPA, at least west coast for sure, it really needs both to get a complete hop expression in my opinion. I don't dry hop a lot of my beers because I don't brew too much IPA though. In thirteen years I've probably dry hopped less than fifteen times.

 

[jcfontario]

I am surprised a bit by some of the comments that dry hopping are a pain to do when transferring and take extra time. Maybe I am doing something wrong. I just add the hops to a cheap dollar store polypropylene mesh veggie bag, drop it in the primary for a few days then pull it out when I get ready to bottle. Yes, it might risk some oxygen addition, but I havent had a batch yet go off.

 

[Gorm]

I do not do hop stands. Over the years there have been many methods of hopping. My favorite for pales or Ipas is first wort, then 30, 15,10,5 then dry hop for 3-5 days.excellent hop flavor and aroma. For our tastes

 

[CyberFox]

I do not do hop stands. Over the years there have been many methods of hopping. My favorite for pales or Ipas is first wort, then 30, 15,10,5 then dry hop for 3-5 days.excellent hop flavor and aroma. For our tastes

You can hop a beer in so many ways: first wort, bittering, hop burst, hop stand, dry hop, etc. I'm wondering if total hops added matters more than when they're added (on the hot side at least). Have you tried comparing your hop bursting with a hop stand?

 

[DBhomebrew]

If you're interested in getting into the nitty gritty...

http://scottjanish.com/

 

[Gorm]

I do not know what hop bursting is. What my tastebuds tell me is I get a lot more flavors from the hops when I add multiplayer additions to the boil.
They also say flame out hops add the least when compared to the other timings. So the one comparison I can think of is the 30 minute addition. Useing chinook at 30 gives me a longer lasting flavor of pine than any other timed addition.I" also I get more citra scent I. The dry hop vs flameout additions.

 

[bwible]

I don’t do hopstands. First I think they contribute to haze and I’m not a fan. Second if you don’t cool your beer right after the boil doesn’t that affect (increase) the bitterness coming out of all your boil hop additions and ruin any flavor hop additions say around 15 or 20 min by taking them up to the equivalent of what would be 40 min additions, etc?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Can't speak toward haze, but the bitterness concerns are easily accounted for.

 

[Gorm]

I don’t do hopstands. First I think they contribute to haze and I’m not a fan. Second if you don’t cool your beer right after the boil doesn’t that affect (increase) the bitterness coming out of all your boil hop additions and ruin any flavor hop additions say around 15 or 20 min by taking them up to the equivalent of what would be 40 min additions, etc?

sure, but the flavors/ bittering effects differs on the hop in combination with the grain bill!mash temp, etc. That’s why I mention the citra and chinook hops.

 

[CyberFox]

That's what I'm talking about. There's so many ways to hop beer. I would consider hop bursting to be throwing hops in at 15 minutes, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, and flameout. Yes, the hop stand increases the bitterness since isomerization is still occurring. That would scale back the "flavor" additions further back in the boil by about 20 minutes, give or take. In order for hop bursting to be most effective, you'd have to chill sooner. With hop stand, supposedly the longer the stand the better. You'd just have to account for the increased bitterness. From what I know, most NEIPAs just add hops at hop stand and dry hop and some might not even add any boil hops at all. This keeps the bitterness low and maximizes the flavor and aroma. Then again, maybe hop bursting is more effective than hop stand when it comes to flavor. There's so many variables, it's hard to tell!

 

[Pehlman17]

Im a hop stand guy for pale ales. Albiet I only do it for about 10 minutes post-boil. I never quite enjoy the flavor of dry hopping beers under 6% abv for some reason. Once I'm in the IPA territory, I generally do both. I also don't drop to wort temp to 180F like many do for their hop stands. Once the wort is no longer actively boiling I just toss them in. Maybe that's why only 10 minutes seems to work for me before I turn the chiller on.

Edit: I also recirculate with a pump and whirlpool arm to make my immersion chiller more effective.

 

[CyberFox]

Im a hop stand guy for pale ales. Albiet I only do it for about 10 minutes post-boil. I never quite enjoy the flavor of dry hopping beers under 6% abv for some reason. Once I'm in the IPA territory, I generally do both. I also don't drop to wort temp to 180F like many do for their hop stands. Once the wort is no longer actively boiling I just toss them in. Maybe that's why only 10 minutes seems to work for me before I turn the chiller on.

Edit: I also recirculate with a pump and whirlpool arm to make my immersion chiller more effective.

I always throw my hops in right after the boil too. I've always wondered how much of a difference the duration of a hop stand would make. I've heard anywhere from 10 minutes up to 90+ minutes. At such high temperatures after the boil, 10 minutes might be all that's needed.

 

[Gorm]

Depends what you want

 

[Panderson1]

I always throw my hops in right after the boil too. I've always wondered how much of a difference the duration of a hop stand would make. I've heard anywhere from 10 minutes up to 90+ minutes. At such high temperatures after the boil, 10 minutes might be all that's needed.

At the homebrew level, and around 170f -190f WP, i doubt you would notice much of a difference anything longer than 15 mins. Just experiment. So many factors and the science is still out. Who freakin knows