Hop flavor too "green"

[TheMortReport]

OK so I couldn't find any posts about this. Pardon me if I'm reposting.

I've been brewing for a few years now, on the all grain train for a while now. Never have had an issue with grain profiles, and usually pretty close on gravities. Stouts and wheats I have no issues with, but IPAs? I keep having the same issue. I feel my hop flavor comes out "green." The aroma is there, but the bitterness is usually lacking and the hop flavor tastes like it still has some earth attached to it. I tried doing a single hop citra IPA, still the same.

I use pellets, DH too. Anyone have an ideas why I'm not getting the bitterness or getting the earthiness in the aroma/flavor?

Thanks!

edit: and no, I'm not just tasting 2 weeks after

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Do you have an example recipe? Could be hopping schedule. Or hop variety. Or hop age and storage conditions.

 

[TheMortReport]

I keep the hops in my fridge in a sealed container. I will say it has been a little while on the Citra, maybe 9 months, but aroma still smells good. Hop profile went like this(all Citra and only Citra):
.5 oz @ 60
1 oz @ 15
3 oz @ 5
2 oz DH (7 days)

 

[fuelish]

I keep the hops in my fridge in a sealed container. I will say it has been a little while on the Citra, maybe 9 months, but aroma still smells good. Hop profile went like this(all Citra and only Citra):
.5 oz @ 60
1 oz @ 15
3 oz @ 5
2 oz DH (7 days)

Is that right or typo???....you need more bittering hops if you want a beer with more bitterness....you've got 6 oz for aroma/flavor, and 0.5 bittering??? Crank up the original addition of hops....don't be afeared

 

[badlee]

I am with fuelish.
Double your 60 minute addition and maybe,depending on the hop,think about a 20 minute addition also.

 

[AnOldUR]

Dunno. I'm getting around 60IBU with that schedule. More depending if you whirlpool for long before starting to chill. Sure, more might be better, but if you go too big on the bittering addition, you’ll mask some of the flavor and aroma from the late hops. Also you didn't mention grain bill. Too much crystal (more than 5%) will also kill some of the hop punch.

My vote would go to hop storage. Hops do best vacuum sealed in the freezer. Sounds like you used fridge but not freezer and sealed, but no vacuum. Nine months is a long time under those conditions.

I keep the hops in my fridge in a sealed container. I will say it has been a little while on the Citra, maybe 9 months

 

[rekoob]

I'm inbetween what's been stated so far. At first seeing your hop schedule my first thought was WAY to low on the 60 minute hop addition.
But, you don't show grain bill and that needs to be looked at too.
And I agree with the storage of the hops, pretty long in frig. They may smell good but are the IBU's degraded some.

 

[CadillacAndy]

How are you dry hopping? I've found that by adding to primary during the last day of active fermentation when the temp is above 65F really helps to volatilize the grassy compounds. I usually try to keep contact times short too - 3-5 days. If I want to reuse the yeast, I wait until it goes in the keg, then dry hop for 3 days at 70F, chill and move to another keg.

 

[dbkdev]

I keep the hops in my fridge in a sealed container. I will say it has been a little while on the Citra, maybe 9 months, but aroma still smells good. Hop profile went like this(all Citra and only Citra):
.5 oz @ 60
1 oz @ 15
3 oz @ 5
2 oz DH (7 days)

Personally, I'd add an oz at 60, another at 30, use 2.5 at whirlpool, and dh the 2 0z for only 5 days. Might help. I also started using a hop bag for boil and dh to try to cut down on vegetation. Hoping this removes my grassy/earthy/green flavor you're also describing.

 

[TheMortReport]

Thanks for all the responses. I went a little bat**** buying Citra hops a year ago and ended up with way more than I needed, hence the time.

The grain bill was 10 lbs 2-row, 1 lb wheat, 8 oz 15L, 4 oz 60L. According to beersmith, my IBUs should come out to 60.5. I'm a big IPA guy, work in a beer bar, we've got beers like Blind Pig, Maharaja and Pliny the Elder on, was trying for the taste profile of a Pliny or Enjoy buy. I know they are not Citra only beers, but I like the big hop flavor with the lack of bitterness. I'm wondering now if I'm tasting the beer wrong, that the cleaner flavor is coming from more bittering hop?

 

[dbkdev]

Thanks for all the responses. I went a little bat**** buying Citra hops a year ago and ended up with way more than I needed, hence the time.

The grain bill was 10 lbs 2-row, 1 lb wheat, 8 oz 15L, 4 oz 60L. According to beersmith, my IBUs should come out to 60.5. I'm a big IPA guy, work in a beer bar, we've got beers like Blind Pig, Maharaja and Pliny the Elder on, was trying for the taste profile of a Pliny or Enjoy buy. I know they are not Citra only beers, but I like the big hop flavor with the lack of bitterness. I'm wondering now if I'm tasting the beer wrong, that the cleaner flavor is coming from more bittering hop?

Well, pliny has like 200+ calculated IBUs. I don't think you're gonna touch Pliny with a smaller malt bill like that and just citra. As far as cleaner flavor, not sure if you mean mouthfeel or 'balance'. if you want a nice crisp mouthfeel, maybe add a pound of corn sugar to that to thin it out a bit.

As for having a lot of hop flavor with less bitterness, buy yourself an ounce or two of warrior or a really high AA bittering hop and toss that in at FWH. use the Citra in the last 10 minutes, at whirlpool, and dry hop with it for maybe just 5 days. You should get some bitterness from the FWH, and all that citra flavor from the end. Some people don't like the taste of CITRA when used as bittering, and you'll have ton's of oil (flavor/aroma) from the hops added at the end.

Also, I could be wrong but I know Pliny doesn't use Citra, and I don't think Enjoy By does either.

 

[Yooper]

............................

My vote would go to hop storage. Hops do best vacuum sealed in the freezer. Sounds like you used fridge but not freezer and sealed, but no vacuum. Nine months is a long time under those conditions.

I agree. The hop storage would be a huge issue here. Storing in the fridge (not freezer) and not vacuum sealed means a ton of loss in the flavor and aroma, and bittering compounds.

The other factor that may be contributing is water chemistry. A water very high in alkalinity may create a mash pH that hinders hops flavors. Do you check mash pH, or know your water make up?

 

[dbkdev]

I agree. The hop storage would be a huge issue here. Storing in the fridge (not freezer) and not vacuum sealed means a ton of loss in the flavor and aroma, and bittering compounds.

The other factor that may be contributing is water chemistry. A water very high in alkalinity may create a mash pH that hinders hops flavors. Do you check mash pH, or know your water make up?

Blah, h20 factors are intimidating! Just moved into a house that has both a bubble up and carbon radon water mitigation system, water softner system, iron mitigation system, and RO system sitting on well water. How the #### do you brew with your water running through all that! Poland spring water making my beer too expensive! Going to spend this long weekend trying to become an expert on water science for brewing. Thought id buy palmers book on it. Any other sources youd reccomend?

 

[dbkdev]

Actually, ill make a new thread so I dont hijack!

 

[TheMortReport]

I know both Pliny and Enjoy by don't use Citra, just like the hop profile of those beers and had a lot of Citra lying around. I dont want to knock a beer or a brewery, but I was not a huge fan of Heady Topper for having what I remember as the same flavors. I usually use warrior for my IPAs for bitterness, was just trying something new

I have the hops in sealed containers, but I'll start freezing them now

And I cant imagine its the water, I live in a very remote Colorado town... though as I type it, I'm remembering we also use to be a big mining town. Maybe there is stuff in the water.

 

[dbkdev]

I know both Pliny and Enjoy by don't use Citra, just like the hop profile of those beers and had a lot of Citra lying around. I dont want to knock a beer or a brewery, but I was not a huge fan of Heady Topper for having what I remember as the same flavors. I usually use warrior for my IPAs for bitterness, was just trying something new

I have the hops in sealed containers, but I'll start freezing them now

And I cant imagine its the water, I live in a very remote Colorado town... though as I type it, I'm remembering we also use to be a big mining town. Maybe there is stuff in the water.

Doesn't have to be something bad in the water, water is different everywhere , and certain qualities or mineral levels, ph, alkalinity etc cam have a big effect on beer even if your water is very clean

 

[gcdowd]

I found that my IPAs improved greatly once I determined my water profile and added stuff to my water. My water is basic so a little lactic acid in the mash, some gypsum in the boil, and my IPAs have done a 180. They went from lacking that hop pop, to having it. It was night and day difference