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mloster

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I brewed about 6 weeks ago. I wanted to try a hoppier beer which seems very compatible with GF brewing. I used the hop schedule from Jamil's evil twin recipe. Just to ensure that I had a sufficiently hopped wort, I added some magnum at 60 minutes. The recipe is for a 5 gallon batch and is as follows:
6 lbs LME Brown Rice Syrup (bought from highgravitybrew.com)
13.5 oz buckwheat honey
.4 oz Magnum [13.5%] @60 min
1 oz Amarillo [7%] @20 min
1 oz Centennial [10 %] @20 min
1 oz Amarillo [7%] @10 min
1 oz Centennial [10%] @10 min
1 oz Amarillo [7%] @flameout
1 packet S-04
1 whirlfloc tablet @10 min
1 tsp yeast nutrient @10 min
I'll post a pic of it later. The beer turned out crystal clear. The hop character isn't harsh like many IPAs/APAs tend to be. It's prominent yet not mouth-puckering. The malt bill turned out surprisingly well. If I were to brew again, I'd probably use 10 oz of buckwheat honey. Disregarding the hop flavor, the base is fairly unidimensional and malty but not in a bad way. This is by far the best beer I've ever made. My non-GF friends couldn't tell it was GF, though they know I brew GF beer. Also, this was one of simplest recipes I've made– no malting, no mashing, no sparging.
 

igliashon

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Have you brewed with other rice syrups before? I'm wondering if the Briess BRS LME is better than than the rice syrup DME I get from my LHBS, which usually ferments out pretty dry.
 

frothdaddy

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That looks like a tasty brew.

I've noticed a few references to brown rice syrup while I've been researching GF brews. Are brown rice syrup and sorghum syrup essentially interchangeable in recipes? From what I've read (including the sticky in this forum) sorghum gives you a "twang". If brown rice syrup doesn't, why does anyone even still use sorghum? Is rice syrup preferable for certain styles but not others?

Background: I've brewed regular barley brew, but I haven't brewed a GF brew yet, so I don't have experience with either of these ingredients.
 

igliashon

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Sorghum does give a "twang", but it also gives lots of other flavors that are actually good. Rice syrup, or at least the dry rice extract I've been using, has very mild flavor. Think Bud Light. I wouldn't say they're interchangeable; rather, they often counter-balance each other in recipes. My favorite extract-only mix, at least for IPAs, is 2 parts rice syrup, 2 parts sorghum, 1 part amber candi syrup and a half-part buckwheat honey. But I'm still experimenting. In any case, if you wanted to brew a very light, crisp beer, it seems like all-rice should be okay. But also, I have never used the Briess brown rice LME that mloster is talking about; that could be a totally different beast than the brown rice DME I get at my LHBS.
 

muench1

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I would be wary of rough fermentation in an all-rice "extract" beer. The rice syrup has fermentable sugar but not nutrients to make yeasties happy like sorghum or barley.
 
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mloster

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That's why I included yeast nutrient. I haven't used different BRS so I don't know of any differences. It fermented out pretty dry. Before carbonation, the sample I tasted was fairly dry. With carbonation though, the beer has decent mouthfeel. It's not by any means too light.
I completely avoid sorghum now as I cannot stand the twang. I've done everything I can to cover it up, even an IPA, but I can still taste off flavors.
 

thanantos

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From what I've read (including the sticky in this forum) sorghum gives you a "twang". If brown rice syrup doesn't, why does anyone even still use sorghum? Is rice syrup preferable for certain styles but not others?
The reason I have been using sorghum as my primary fermentable was cost. BRS at my LHBS is $7 for a 1lb 5 oz jar where as a 2.3lb jar of sorghum is only $6.

However, I thank the OP for posting the source of cheap BRS. I'll try that next time.
 

ChasidicCalvinist

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I use Lundberg's brown rice syrup in my brews...5 batches thus far and they all taste good. It is a fairly reasonable price, especially if you buy a case.
 

igliashon

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I think I'm gonna try this recipe, scaled down to a 3 gallon batch. Verbatim, for a change, since I never brew from recipes. But I've been meaning to try Amarillo hops, and this seems like as good a way as any.
 

jcalisi

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Is Rice Syrup Solids DME and LME the same and is it a 1:1 conversion? What is the buckwheat honey bringing to the party?
 
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mloster

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I can't say either way as to the conversion of DME to LME between rice syrups because I haven't experimented with it. I've only used LME. As for the buckwheat honey, it brings a higher OG since honey is highly fermentable, but, more importantly, it brings a malty flavor that can only be matched with barley malt or home malted GF grains, which are much more work.
 

dorklord

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Is Rice Syrup Solids DME and LME the same and is it a 1:1 conversion? What is the buckwheat honey bringing to the party?
Rice syrup solids are fully dehydrated rice extract syrup. I think I saw somewhere that the syrup is 20% water, so you'd need roughly 20% more of it to equal an amount of the solids.
 

igliashon

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So, I just ordered a bunch of this syrup from High Gravity, and it arrived *actively fermenting*! One of the buckets had popped open, and leaked syrup all over the inside of the shipping box. I resealed it and the next day it had popped open again and leaked more onto my floor (which was a B**** to clean up). When I opened the buckets, the syrup was bubbly and smelled yeasty. I've e-mailed them but they haven't gotten back to me yet. I'm hoping they'll send replacement syrup post-haste, but man...what kind of yeast can live in BRS??
 
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mloster

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A similar thing happened to me once when I ordered BRS. The bucket had opened, covering everything in incredibly sticky BRS. Mine, though, was not actively fermenting. I emailed them about the problem and promptly sent me a replacement free of charge. They seemed very nice about it. But it still seems as though they don't know how to properly package and ship BRS.
 

igliashon

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Well, I'm brewing this up today with the replacement BRS they sent me. I'm doing a 3-gallon version, though, so the recipe was adjusted ever so slightly. It is nevertheless the closest thing to following an exact recipe I've done since my very first brew (which was a kit). Only change is I subbed Millenium hops for Warrior.

---

3 gallon batch:

Malt Bill:
4 lbs Briess High-Maltose Brown Rice Syrup at 60 min
8 oz Buckwheat Honey at flame-out
2 oz maltodextrin

Hop Schedule:

0.2 oz Millenium (17.4% AA) at 60 min
0.5 oz Amarillo (7% AA) at 20 min
0.5 oz Centennial (10% AA) at 20 min
0.5 oz Amarillo at 10 min
0.5 oz Centennial at 10 min
0.5 oz Amarillo at flame-out

S-04 Yeast

1 tab Whirlfloc at 15 min
1/2 tsp Yeast Nutrient at 15 min

I'm putting my faith in you, mloster! You say it's the best you've done so far, and I reckon that means something. I was tempted to do some modding, like adding a pound of amber candi syrup and some steeping grains, but I'll save that for a re-brew, just because I want to taste what you're tasting.
 
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mloster

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Looks great! I'm sure it'll come out a tasty brew. If there was anything to change in your scaled down recipe, I'd shoot for .6-.7 oz of amarillo and centennial at each addition. Hope it's not too late before you brew.
 

igliashon

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Eh, I actually think I come out closer to 2.5 gallons than 3, at the end of the boil the water level in my kettle showed exactly 3 gallons, but I think I lose at least half of that to hops and trub. TBH, and this is gonna sound weird, I'm not entirely sure what volume to use to formulate my recipes. I use 3 gallons in beer calculus, but end up with less than that in bottles at the end of the process. Maybe I should go enquire in the beginners forum about that, actually.... In any case, I think the beer will be plenty hoppy for a pale ale!
 

ChasidicCalvinist

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I usually brew with only 1-2 gallons, then pour in more water at the end to reach the desired level--3 or 5 gallons. In my last batch, your Grapefruit IPA--I poured it up to 3.5 since I figured with the dry hop I'd lose half a gallon. In the one or two I've had, they tasted great. I don't think it makes much of a difference what volume you use during the boil.

On the other hand, I was in the ER last night possibly because of something I homebrewed so what do I know.
 

igliashon

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Okay, the consensus from the "General Techniques" forum is that recipe volume = volume at the end of the boil, i.e. pre-whirlpool/filtering, pre-fermentation. So apparently yes, I make 3-gallon batches, which come out to 2.5 gallons in bottling. Who knew brewing involved so much $#(@ing math?! :drunk:

In any case, Beer Calculus shows my version of the recipe to be between 52 and 79 IBUs (depending on what calculation method you pick), which is more in range for an IPA than a Pale Ale already...I think it'll be fine!
 

rlbois1

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...I don't think it makes much of a difference what volume you use during the boil.

On the other hand, I was in the ER last night possibly because of something I homebrewed so what do I know.
Believe the basic rule of thumb is: smaller boil (relative to batch size) equals lower IBU's. Also, late additions of fermentables equal higher IBU's. There are no doubt other interrelationships... but I think the bottom line is that as usual, size does matter.:)

In the ER due to a batch of brew?? Please share.
 

ChasidicCalvinist

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Well...I don't know. I cracked open a bottle and it tasted odd. I've probably drank a case of that batch already. After drinking half of it I poured the rest out because something didn't seem right. 1 hour later I was puking my guts out. 3 hours later I was being driven to the ER. 4 hours after that they released me. They couldn't find anything wrong and I didn't really have the signs of food poisoning. So I don't know what it was. I'm wondering if there was maybe some sanitizer left in that particular bottle or some residual mold from a previous batch. But then again, the beer may have had nothing to do with it. No clue.
 

rlbois1

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Well...I don't know. I cracked open a bottle and it tasted odd. I've probably drank a case of that batch already. After drinking half of it I poured the rest out because something didn't seem right. 1 hour later I was puking my guts out. 3 hours later I was being driven to the ER. 4 hours after that they released me. They couldn't find anything wrong and I didn't really have the signs of food poisoning. So I don't know what it was. I'm wondering if there was maybe some sanitizer left in that particular bottle or some residual mold from a previous batch. But then again, the beer may have had nothing to do with it. No clue.
Wow, that sucks; glad you're okay. Have you sampled any other bottles from that batch for clues? Weird that you had already drank a bunch from that batch with no odd taste or ill effects.
 

igliashon

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Took a hydrometer reading today. The hops are delectable, but the body feels a bit thin and dry for them. As it happens, I also had a chance to taste an actual Evil Twin Red Ale from Heretic Brewing (Jamil's brewing company, conveniently located here in the East Bay). I also looked at the original clone recipe (not mloster's gluten-free one), which calls for Cascade rather than Amarillo, and there is a definite difference (albeit a subtle one) in the hops. The "real thing" is more grapefruity, while mine is more tropical.

All told, this is going to be a very nice, drinkable pale ale, verging on an IPA. I would not want more hops in this one, the body does not really stand up to it. What I would do in the future if I brewed this again (I probably won't, as it's close to the grapefruit IPA recipe I'm trying to perfect) is add some amber candi syrup and just a touch of molasses, and also bump all my hop additions up by .1 oz.

Should be bottling this one next week! It'll be a great summer quencher.
 

rlbois1

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I brewed about 6 weeks ago. I wanted to try a hoppier beer which seems very compatible with GF brewing. I used the hop schedule from Jamil's evil twin recipe. Just to ensure that I had a sufficiently hopped wort, I added some magnum at 60 minutes. The recipe is for a 5 gallon batch and is as follows:
6 lbs LME Brown Rice Syrup (bought from highgravitybrew.com)
13.5 oz buckwheat honey
.4 oz Magnum [13.5%] @60 min
1 oz Amarillo [7%] @20 min
1 oz Centennial [10 %] @20 min
1 oz Amarillo [7%] @10 min
1 oz Centennial [10%] @10 min
1 oz Amarillo [7%] @flameout
1 packet S-04
1 whirlfloc tablet @10 min
1 tsp yeast nutrient @10 min
I'll post a pic of it later. The beer turned out crystal clear. The hop character isn't harsh like many IPAs/APAs tend to be. It's prominent yet not mouth-puckering. The malt bill turned out surprisingly well. If I were to brew again, I'd probably use 10 oz of buckwheat honey. Disregarding the hop flavor, the base is fairly unidimensional and malty but not in a bad way. This is by far the best beer I've ever made. My non-GF friends couldn't tell it was GF, though they know I brew GF beer. Also, this was one of simplest recipes I've made– no malting, no mashing, no sparging.
I've got some buckwheat honey and I'm thinking of brewing a batch of this. What were the OG and FG? BrewTarget is predicting 1.048 and 1.012, but that's with 1lb of generic honey... Also, how happy were you with the hopping schedule? Would you change anything hop-wise? I'm thinking I could maybe sub some Cascade (trying to use up the 1lb bag I bought) for the Centennial without changing the hop profile too drastically?
 
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mloster

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I never got an OG or FG since my hydrometer broke. Those numbers sound about right for hoitw alcoholic it tasted, about 4% It probably finished a bit drier than 1.012. Id guest 1.008 or so just from tasting and measuring other beers. I was completely happy with the hopping. If you like some other low AA combination of hops then go for it. I was just following Jamil's original hop schedule. Cascade should be fine. Id definitely call this a hybrid pale ale and Ipa. It's a pale ale that's hopped like an Ipa
 

ChasidicCalvinist

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I should probably update my puking incident...it was unfortunate timing. Turns out it was a really bad stomach virus. My secretary and a few other people I know came down with it several days later. Fortunately, my wife and new baby never got sick. And I'm also glad I was suspicious enough to NOT pour out the rest of the beer. :)
 

igliashon

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Bottled this about four days ago, and couldn't resist cracking one today (LOL, I got NO patience!). Excellent. Simply excellent. Yeah, it's undercarbed, but it came out a lot sweeter than I thought from the hydrometer samples. This is a very, very good beer. The hops are wonderful, and it does have a nice clean light maltiness. It reminds me a whole lot of the St. Peter's Sorgham ale, except that where the sorghum twang normally comes in there's a nice bready crispness. I think I'm definitely going to move away from using sorghum, this is much better than my sorghum-based recipes.

And now I'm wishing I'd taken mloster's advice and bumped the hops up a bit! The rice really does stand up just fine, all on its own. The only thing that could really improve this one is some dry-hopping to kick up the aroma. Thanks for this excellent recipe, mloster!
 

rlbois1

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Bottled this about four days ago, and couldn't resist cracking one today (LOL, I got NO patience!). Excellent. Simply excellent. Yeah, it's undercarbed, but it came out a lot sweeter than I thought from the hydrometer samples. This is a very, very good beer. The hops are wonderful, and it does have a nice clean light maltiness. It reminds me a whole lot of the St. Peter's Sorgham ale, except that where the sorghum twang normally comes in there's a nice bready crispness. I think I'm definitely going to move away from using sorghum, this is much better than my sorghum-based recipes.

And now I'm wishing I'd taken mloster's advice and bumped the hops up a bit! The rice really does stand up just fine, all on its own. The only thing that could really improve this one is some dry-hopping to kick up the aroma. Thanks for this excellent recipe, mloster!
I just brewed up a non-GF Canadian Ale for a neighbor as a gift, but as soon as my primary re-opens I will be brewing up a batch of this beer. Two questions for you: 1) what would you dry hop with? And 2) I've already asked mloster, but what is your opinion on subbing Cascade for the Centennial in this recipe? Like I said, I bought a pound of Cascade to experiment with, and was I thinking they could be ~similar enough to the Centennial to substitute without totally dorking up the hopping of this recipe...
 

igliashon

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I'd dry-hop with both of the kettle hops (amarillo and centennial). I'd say you could sub cascade for amarillo more effectively than for centennial just because of IBUs, but you'll still be fine subbing for centennial--just up the amount to hit the proper IBUs.
 

thanantos

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Side note here: Where are you guys getting buckwheat honey from and how does it differ in the end from regular honey?
 

igliashon

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I get mine from Whole Foods, but it seems quite common...you can even get it at farm stands out in the country here. It has a deeper, maltier, earthier flavor than regular honey. FWIW, there's really no such thing as "regular honey". The stuff you buy in the store that's generically labeled "honey" is usually heavily-filtered and heat-processed homogenized honey from many sources, basically a sugar syrup that's pretty worthless for brewing. Go out and find a health food store or a farm stand or whatever and get some RAW, UNFILTERED, GRADE B honey from a varietal source (or wildflowers, wildflower honey can be quite good depending on the flowers the bees are foraging at). Order online if you must! It's expensive but it adds so much to the brew. All kinds of floral, earthy, herbal, spicy, or fruity flavors, depending on the variety (hmm...where have I heard those kind of descriptive words before? Some other beer ingredient, perhaps? ;)).
 

thanantos

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I'll ask the local bee keeper at the farmer's market about it.

The only thing I have ever seen there is the classic, yellow honey, but I'll give it a shot.

Beyond that I guess it is the local health food store/internet for me since we don't have a whole foods within 100 miles of here.
 

igliashon

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I cracked another bottle today, after about 10 days of conditioning. Gotta say, it's a bit too dry for my liking. I would keep the honey where it was in the original posted recipe (I brewed it with mloster's suggested lower amount) and maybe add a bit of candi syrup and maybe a little molasses (just a LITTLE).
 

remman4

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Bottled my take on this recipe last night and the samples are promising!

I used chinook, centennial, and cascade along with DH of simcoe and galaxy

Gravity readings indicate this will be ~7% and definitely in the IPA range for IBUs
 
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mloster

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I'd have to agree with igliashon. Some candi syrup to prevent it from drying out would be fantastic. Perhaps, you could keep the recipe exactly as is and add some candi syrup to bump it into the IPA range for both IBUs and the ABV.
 

rlbois1

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Bottled my take on this recipe last night and the samples are promising!

I used chinook, centennial, and cascade along with DH of simcoe and galaxy

Gravity readings indicate this will be ~7% and definitely in the IPA range for IBUs
At 7%ABV you must have "bumped" something up. Care to share your version of the recipe?
 

remman4

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It turns out I had entered my ingredients incorrectly! The ABV is actually ~6.5% so still IPA range, but not the 7.5% I had thought previously

6.6 lbs white sorghum syrup
2 lbs rice syrup solids
1 lb dark belgian candy sugar

2 lbs rice syrup and ~2 lbs sorghum for 60 minute boil, the rest at flameout

1 oz Chinook 60 min
1 oz Chinook 10 min
1 oz Centennial 5 min
1 oz Cascade flameout
1 oz galaxy DH 8 days
1 oz simcoe DH 8 days

US-05 Ale Yeast

Fermentation time total 4 weeks including DH
 

thanantos

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igliashon said:
So, I just ordered a bunch of this syrup from High Gravity, and it arrived *actively fermenting*! One of the buckets had popped open, and leaked syrup all over the inside of the shipping box. I resealed it and the next day it had popped open again and leaked more onto my floor (which was a B**** to clean up). When I opened the buckets, the syrup was bubbly and smelled yeasty. I've e-mailed them but they haven't gotten back to me yet. I'm hoping they'll send replacement syrup post-haste, but man...what kind of yeast can live in BRS??
Just to follow up on this. I ordered two 6 gallon buckets from high gravity recently and they arrived fully intact with no damage and still sealed.

Brewing to commence shortly :)
 

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