Hop additions for English style IPA

[neildytham]

Hi,
I am brewing an English style IPA today,\
I'm using the following:
7lbs Light LME
1lb Maris Otter
6oz Crystal Malt
4oz EKG hops - 6.8%AA
4oz Fuggle hops - 3.8%AA

Now, I'm really just considering the timing of the addition of these hops.
I've never really used either before and want to keep it authentic tasting.
Nowhere seems to let me know which is better as a bittering hop, my plan is:
2oz for 60 mins
2oz for 30 mins
2oz for 5 mins
2oz for dry hopping.
But which should I add when?

They are all flowers, not plugs or pellets.

Any help would be great. I'm leaning towards bittering with the fuggles, because of thier nice earthiness, and the Goldings smell good for the later addition.....

 

[david_42]

That's about four times as much as you need for the beer. If you are trying for anything like a Left Coast IPA, you will be sorely disappointed. I'd use:

1 oz each @ 60
1/2 oz EKG at 15
1/2 oz Fuggles at 5

No dry hops.

 

[jlpred55]

I'd recommend doing something a little different. I find I get my best results for a beer like that with a bittering addition that hits my IBU's so if you are shooting for 50, I'd bitter my English IPA with 50 ibus of Fuggle or some other hop (I like challenger or northdown), then at flame out I throw in a couple ounces (usually goldings or fuggles). I also dry hop (usually 1 oz) with goldings.

The traditional way would be to bitter only (massive amounts) and then dry hop the crap out of it.

I've been reading The Complete Practical Brewer from 1860 and found that british brewers used a lot more hops than what is used today. Some recipes for porter alone used an equv. amount of 7 oz for a 5 gal batch. Put that in your pipe and smoke on it for a minute.

 

[Bob]

I agree. I don't think beers like this benefit from a "flavor addition". Add your bittering charge right after you see break formation, then don't add any more hops until flameout (or dry-hop).

Don't be too alarmed about the hops quantities you read in historical texts. There are a couple of issues involved with that which must be considered.

First, we don't have any alpha-acid analysis; my educated guess is that alpha-acid percentages were far lower than they are today.

Second, processing was more an art than a science in 1860; today's hops are more uniformly dried to a more definitive state than historically, and that impacts shelf life and bittering potential.

Third, the boil dynamic is different according to batch size; hops amounts do not scale linearly to achieve a like bittering potential. You can scale a grist and get the same OG result. The same cannot be said for hops quantities and IBU contribution. I've brewed enough with my system to understand the differences and can apply some arithmetic to my recipes to arrive at an approximation of bittering when scaling. Unfortunately that's entirely empirical; what works in my brewery will not work in yours.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[jlpred55]

I agree with a couple assumptions. However, it is clear even today the english hop growers are using the same types of plants, growing on the same soil and in the same environment. So brewing scholars agree that the alpha acid of those hops in use during the time are very similar to todays hops. Also, it is well known english hop growers and brewers alike understood, non scientifically, that hops needed certain processes to be good quality and to remain viable. They even stored them in stock and cool rooms for this reason.

 

[bierhaus15]

However, it is clear even today the english hop growers are using the same types of plants, growing on the same soil and in the same environment. So brewing scholars agree that the alpha acid of those hops in use during the time are very similar to todays hops.

The English hops we so love nowadays are not necessarily the same product that was grown a hundred years ago, or more. There were many variations around, including different types of goldings, fuggles, ect... all grown in very different geographies. Flavor, aroma, imparted bitterness for each varieties was indeed different. We don't see mainstream efforts to standardize varieties and productions methods until after WWI.

Regarding the AA% of historical hops, there is no way of knowing their actual AA% compared to now. However, most beer historians agree that AA% around the mid to late 19th century would have been lower than they are now, though not necessarily by a whole lot for low % varieties like goldings and fuggles. However, while hopping rates were higher back then, it does not necessarily mean they would be hoppier tasting. Big beers would be vatted and aged for a couple of years before consuming (like Imp. Stouts, Porters). These would be very bitter but not so much hoppy. On the other hand, you have ipa's/burton ales that were very highly hopped (often 3-4lbs of hops per barrel) and consumed fresh. These would be like our IIPA's today. I forget what ya'll were arguing about, but I felt like rambling on with some beer history.

 

[neildytham]

Thanks everyone for your input.
I went for about half as bittering hops (60 mins) and put in a couple of oz at 5 mins.
So I brewed this on Thursday, last week, and its already good to go.
OG - 1.062
FG - 1.016.
All signs of fermentation seem to have ceased, I've tasted it and it's dam good! Don't think dry-hoppi g is necessary.
I'm wondering what to do with it.
I have always bottled my previous beers with a small amount of sugar for carbonation, but having tasted this, and wanting to keep it more authentically like an English IPA (that I grew up with), I'm tempted to keep it non carbonated.
What's the nest way to go about this?
Just bottle it as is?
Will it keep ok?
I don't have a cask or a keg......

Any input would be much apprectiated.

 

[bierhaus15]

So I brewed this on Thursday, last week, and its already good to go... All signs of fermentation seem to have ceased, I've tasted it and it's dam good! Don't think dry-hopping is necessary. I'm wondering what to do with it.

Foremost, give the beer AT LEAST two full weeks on the yeast cake! It may taste ok now, but you would be a lot better off in the long run if you leave it be for a while. I usually keep my english ales on the yeast cake for 3 weeks minimum before I do anything with them. This goes for all my beers really.

I would suggest a dry hop for English IPA's, though it really depends on how much hop aroma you are looking for. I dry hop for 7 days.

Also, contrary to popular belief, English style beers do have carbonation - though at very low levels. Carbonate to 2 volumes and you'll have a great beer.

Hope that helps!

 

[Bob]

All signs of fermentation seem to have ceased, I've tasted it and it's dam good! Don't think dry-hopping is necessary.

That's entirely up to you. I find that even with a sizeable addition of flameout hops, an IPA still bears dry-hopping.

I have always bottled my previous beers with a small amount of sugar for carbonation, but having tasted this, and wanting to keep it more authentically like an English IPA (that I grew up with), I'm tempted to keep it non carbonated.

English beers are NOT, say again NOT, uncarbonated. They're just carbonated far less than American beers. Heck, British bottled beers are usually carbonated to the same range as American bottled microbrews. The difference is between traditional British draught and American draught, between cask-conditioning and filtered keg beer. Cask-conditioned beer is usually carbonated far less than filtered keg beer. When placed side by side, the cask-conditioned beer might appear uncarbonated, but that's not true.

Your goal should be to target CO2 volumes of 2 to 2.5. This is less than your average filtered keg beer (think Watney's Red Barrel), but more than draught real ale what comes out of a hand-pump. It'll be consistent with bottled English IPAs like Fuller's IPA or Sam'l Smith's India Ale in terms of carbonation. Any of the brewing software applications should calculate the amount of sugar needed to achieve a desired volume of CO2.

Cheers,

Bob