Honeysuckle Bier

[MVKTR2]

Using the cheap labor of my 11 year old and the neighbors 11 year old, I obtained a full 1 gallon container of honeysuckle flowers this weekend. I want to make a honeysuckle wheat or blonde, maybe even an amber or porter.

My dilemma is how to use the honeysuckle. My conventional wisdom is to add 1/2 at 10 or so minutes, and the other half at flame out. THIS CONCERNS ME GREATLY. Why? Because I made a small cup of tea with the honeysuckle and it tasted horrible! Vegetable and viney, no honeysuckle flavor/aroma at all. Now I did this by boiling the flowers. So no boiling! Which leaves me with the option of adding them at flameout or dryhopping with them. I'm not wanting to dry hop with them as there's got to be wild yeast/bacteria.

Also by the next morning the cup of honeysuckle tea had turned from pale yellow with just a slight hint of lime green, to a fairly deep hooker/leaf green. Uggggh

Has anyone else used Honeysuckle? Any success?

(and yes I did a HBT search for honeysuckle yielding very little, all in the arena of mead with very little info)

Help I'm lost....

Phillip

 

[Yooper]

Can't help you with the beer. But, honeysuckle (and other flowers) makes a great wine. If you have some leftover, you could try an easy recipe for honeysuckle wine! (http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques81.asp)

Now, that recipe (from Jack Keller's site) calls for steeping the flowers, like tea, for three hours. So, could you try that with a few flowers and see what happens? Bring some water to a boil, turn it off, and add the flowers, then taste it in a couple of hours? Maybe THAT can be used in the primary as some of the brewing water, or even reboil it and taste it to see what happens. Just a thought.

 

[pjj2ba]

You might try an alcohol extraction of the flowers. Maybe you could add a cheap bottle of vodka to the flowers and let it sit a couple days. Of course this may be too much alcohol. Maybe you could dry the flowers first on very low heat in the oven and then extract with a smaller amount of vodka.

Now, if you are kinda geeky and a bit of a tinkerer, this may work: The goal is to collect the aroma compounds (actually this would work with hops too). You will be "distilling" the aroma compounds, but rather than collecting drips, you will catch the aromas on activated charcoal. Activated charcoal is very good at absorbing aroma compounds. Rinse some activated charcoal (1/2 cup or so) with water to remove the dust, then dry it and then rinse it in alcohol to sanitize it. Now you need to find some kind of tube to put the charcoal in such that you can pass an airstream through it. Now you need to put the flowers in a container that you can blow (or suck) air through and put your charcoal filter at the outlet side of the airstream. As volatile aroma compounds are released, they will get caught in the airstream and then be trapped in the charcoal as they pass through the filter. I don't know however how long this will take. Some gentle heating might help to speed the process. I had a friend so something similar to collect and compare the scents of different orchids as part of his thesis. He put the orchids in a chamber with an air inlet and a small charcoal filter on the outlet along with a pump to pull the air through. He let it run overnight and would then elute the compounds with a solvent and use a GC-MS to analyze the components. You could simply add the trapped aromas by dumping the charcoal (already sanitized)into your secondary. The charcoal will settle out. Or maybe better, extract with a small amount of vodka. You could trap the aromas now and put the filter in a sealed container in the freezer until you are ready to use it

 

[Klainmeister]

You might try an alcohol extraction of the flowers. Maybe you could add a cheap bottle of vodka to the flowers and let it sit a couple days. Of course this may be too much alcohol. Maybe you could dry the flowers first on very low heat in the oven and then extract with a smaller amount of vodka.

Now, if you are kinda geeky and a bit of a tinkerer, this may work: The goal is to collect the aroma compounds (actually this would work with hops too). You will be "distilling" the aroma compounds, but rather than collecting drips, you will catch the aromas on activated charcoal. Activated charcoal is very good at absorbing aroma compounds. Rinse some activated charcoal (1/2 cup or so) with water to remove the dust, then dry it and then rinse it in alcohol to sanitize it. Now you need to find some kind of tube to put the charcoal in such that you can pass an airstream through it. Now you need to put the flowers in a container that you can blow (or suck) air through and put your charcoal filter at the outlet side of the airstream. As volatile aroma compounds are released, they will get caught in the airstream and then be trapped in the charcoal as they pass through the filter. I don't know however how long this will take. Some gentle heating might help to speed the process. I had a friend so something similar to collect and compare the scents of different orchids as part of his thesis. He put the orchids in a chamber with an air inlet and a small charcoal filter on the outlet along with a pump to pull the air through. He let it run overnight and would then elute the compounds with a solvent and use a GC-MS to analyze the components. You could simply add the trapped aromas by dumping the charcoal (already sanitized)into your secondary. The charcoal will settle out. Or maybe better, extract with a small amount of vodka. You could trap the aromas now and put the filter in a sealed container in the freezer until you are ready to use it

rarely would i use this word on this forum....but that's epic!

 

[MVKTR2]

Thanks Yooper, but I think I'll pass due to that recipe requiring a "simmer" method which is exactly what produced the putrid results last night.

Pjj2ba... That sounds like exactly the deal I'm looking for! My only thing is do you have some suggestions for equipment?

Andy yes... this does sound epic, Sensational if it works!

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[denimglen]

Can't help but I would be interested to hear the results, there's a honeysuckle down the back that asking to be picked.

 

[pjj2ba]

I guess it depends on what you have access to. I've got access to all kinds of fun lab stuff, but I assume you don't. For the activated charcoal, finer is better, but not so fine as to be dust. I know you can get it a pet stores in the aquarium section. While this would work, it is not ideal, it is a little big. Maybe if it were crushed a bit more. You want lots of surface area to grab onto the aroma molecules. Make sure you rinse it first to remove any dust. What to pack this into. Hmmmmm......how about a turkey baster, yeah that would work. Fill up the baster with the charcoal. You may want to put a small wad of cotton at the tip so the charcoal doesn't fall out. When it is nearly full, put a cottton ball on the other end to "seal" it up. Don't pack it too tight, air has to flow through it.

The next thing is what to put the flowers into. Ideally something that can be warmed a little. A 1 gal jug would work, or even a carboy, or even a brewing bucket. Something air tight. Now you need an inlet and an outlet. For a jug this could just be a stopper with two holes in it. Put the flowers in, plug it up, and then I'd use a aquarium pump or something to blow air into the container. Now use some tubing to connect the turkey baster charcoal aroma trap (TBCAT) to the outlet and let er' rip. A gentle warming of either the container, or ideally the air supply, would probably speed things along. Probably putting the set-up in full sun would work well to speed things along. You don't want to heat it up too much. When you are tired of waiting, I guess I'd suggest eluting with vodka. One could dump this right in as is, but the charcoal would also grab flavor compounds out of the beer. How much affect this would have, I can't say. For alcohol, I'd use whatever has the highest proof you can find. Just pour that into your TBCAT and collect what drips out (like fly sparging). The finer your charcoal, the slower this will go.
Alternatively, you could dump the charcoal out into a measuring cup and add the alcohol to that and let it extract for a few minutes(batch sparge), settle, and remove the now flavored alcohol with the baster.

Is that geeky enough?

I had another thought. More pricey though. Maybe one of those charcoal water (air in this case) filters would do the trick? I'm not real familiar with them. The tricky part would be how to recover your aroma compounds afterwards in as small a volume as possible. I'm nut sure how the actual cartridge is constructed. I can imagine some sort of deconstruction of the filter afterwards to help with the extraction. Oh, I'd do a pre rinse with alcohol before using the cartridge to get rid of anything icky from manufacturing of the filter. These things are designed for water and the alcohol may rinse off some icky stuff that water won't.

 

[MVKTR2]

Thanks pjj2ba, God loves us geeks! I'll be trying this this weekend. It'll probably be a few weeks before I can brew this bier though, but I'll post how it works as I proceed.

Thanks again and Schlante,
Phillip

 

[pjj2ba]

You can always test out the apparatus you build with anything aromatic (maybe some roses for the wife), just to test and see if it works before trying it out with the honeysuckle. You might want to use a fresh batch of charcoal though for the honeysuckle in case any of the test batch carries over.

 

[nathan]

if you sterilized the charcoal soaking them in vodka to rinse, and baked them dry, then did this, would it be safe to dump the charcoal into a carboy as a secondary? Would the charcoal "filter" your beer?

What about packing the flowers into a jar and freezing them for a while to help clean them, then using an air pump with a tube to the bottom of the jar with a short tube to come out at the top (like a cornie keg) and blowing in air with an aquarium pump run through a hepa filter, with the outflow bubbling down in the fermenter for aeration before pitching?

Or... (and now I'm just getting silly) maybe pump CO2 through the jar, and after it's purged, send it to the bottom of the secondary, or force carb a keg with it or something like that (maybe use a carbonation stone)....

hrm....

I found this thread because last night I was drowning in the smell of honeysuckle from a huge bush in the yard. And I was 50 feet away from it! I instantly thought "Honeysuckle Wheat!"

 

[pjj2ba]

if you sterilized the charcoal soaking them in vodka to rinse, and baked them dry, then did this, would it be safe to dump the charcoal into a carboy as a secondary? Would the charcoal "filter" your beer?

What about packing the flowers into a jar and freezing them for a while to help clean them, then using an air pump with a tube to the bottom of the jar with a short tube to come out at the top (like a cornie keg) and blowing in air with an aquarium pump run through a hepa filter, with the outflow bubbling down in the fermenter for aeration before pitching?

Or... (and now I'm just getting silly) maybe pump CO2 through the jar, and after it's purged, send it to the bottom of the secondary, or force carb a keg with it or something like that (maybe use a carbonation stone)....

hrm....

I found this thread because last night I was drowning in the smell of honeysuckle from a huge bush in the yard. And I was 50 feet away from it! I instantly thought "Honeysuckle Wheat!"

The charcoal would bind up some flavor/color components, how much would be hard to say.

I wouldn't freeze the flowers. Fresh ones will still be metabolizing and making more aroma compounds

I like this last idea! This might just work. I'd do it in the keg, with a carbonation stone, but I'd leave the the pressure relief valve open so you get more flow. Once the pressure starts to build it won't flow so much, and then your "chamber" has to be designed to take the pressure too. I don't think you'd need much flow, just a slow "leak" Let it go for 24hrs and you'd be set.

You could try this on a small scale with water, or better would be an actual beer - something light so you can detect a change. I'd at this point for testing purposes just use an aquarium pump. For a full scale attempt, you'd definitely want to use CO2 so you don't oxidize the beer. It might also be wise to have some kind of sterilizing filter (0.2 micron - ideal) between the chamber and the beer. There is the risk of microbes coming in off the flowers. If you can't find a filter, then I might suggest you carb the beer first and then "fumigate" it the honeysuckle essence and then start drinking immediately

 

[J_to_the_B]

Newbie reviving an old post...

Has anybody had success with this?

 

[fergy89406]

I found this forum on honeysuckle beer (ale) just from a quick google search, and I, too, am curious to see how anyone's foray into this type of beer went.

I've made honeysuckle wine, and while it's still in a tertiary carboy finishing up batch aging, it smells and tastes wonderful. I figured the next logical step is to make a honeysuckle ale! Well, I haven't really found anyone who's been able to accomplish this.

My first thought is to dry the flowers. And while the sweetness and taste associated with this lovely plant is there in its dried state, the aroma is nowhere to be found. That's the compound I'm most anxious to collect.... the sweet, floral aroma of fresh honeysuckle.

I will be attempting this beer at the end of the month. I've dried up about 8 ounces of buds, but will only be utilizing about 2-3 ounces at 15 min in the boil.

I've tried to do a hydrolate of the blossom, much in the same way rose water is made. Alas, the fresh essence of the aroma was not collected. I was able to collect a very sweet smelling water.... but that's not what I'm after. My first assumption was that there is a breakdown in the chemistry when heat is attached. I'm wanting to try to infuse a neutral grain alcohol with the flowers, to see if that will bring out any true aroma.... but really wouldn't know if that would work.

Has anyone out in the homebrewtalk universe been able to trap the aroma of the honeysuckle? A train of thought leads me to add fresh blossoms to the secondary (much like dry-hopping), but ultimately this could end in a destroyed batch... which leaves me hesitant to even try it. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[dragonlor20]

I found this forum on honeysuckle beer (ale) just from a quick google search, and I, too, am curious to see how anyone's foray into this type of beer went.

I've made honeysuckle wine, and while it's still in a tertiary carboy finishing up batch aging, it smells and tastes wonderful. I figured the next logical step is to make a honeysuckle ale! Well, I haven't really found anyone who's been able to accomplish this.

My first thought is to dry the flowers. And while the sweetness and taste associated with this lovely plant is there in its dried state, the aroma is nowhere to be found. That's the compound I'm most anxious to collect.... the sweet, floral aroma of fresh honeysuckle.

I will be attempting this beer at the end of the month. I've dried up about 8 ounces of buds, but will only be utilizing about 2-3 ounces at 15 min in the boil.

I've tried to do a hydrolate of the blossom, much in the same way rose water is made. Alas, the fresh essence of the aroma was not collected. I was able to collect a very sweet smelling water.... but that's not what I'm after. My first assumption was that there is a breakdown in the chemistry when heat is attached. I'm wanting to try to infuse a neutral grain alcohol with the flowers, to see if that will bring out any true aroma.... but really wouldn't know if that would work.

Has anyone out in the homebrewtalk universe been able to trap the aroma of the honeysuckle? A train of thought leads me to add fresh blossoms to the secondary (much like dry-hopping), but ultimately this could end in a destroyed batch... which leaves me hesitant to even try it. Any help would be appreciated!

Any luck with this?

 

[fergy89406]

Well, the honeysuckle wine turned out fabulous. The aroma, taste, and essence are all there.

While I was in the process of getting everything ordered to do my experiment... all my plants are no longer with blossoms. It seems that the season has passed for them, so I have no other option than to try next year.

I did contact a brewery in New York who were doing an experiment with a Randalizer and fresh blossoms, and they said it turned out great... albeit they used too much, and it overpowered their ale. I did trade some emails with them about my concerns and doubts... and their prognosis was that by dry-hopping with fresh blossoms would most definitely infuse the beer with the great aroma. But they, too, were concerned about the wild yeasties and baddies that the flower might hold, and in turn would make a beer that would need to be consumed fast.

I guess we'll just have to wait til next season to give this a go!

 

[Gonzo]

What about using honeysuckle essence by Bach?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MXDTUI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[MonkHeDo]

What about using honeysuckle essence by Bach?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MXDTUI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I know this is a very old thread but my wife is very knowledgeable about holistic remedies and things and she says this essence wouldn't give you any flavor or aroma of honeysuckle. So I'm just throwing that out there because she asked me to.

 

[farfromtame]

the best way to infuse the flavor of honeysuckle without getting that viney taste you describe (or any flower, for that matter)... is to steep it for a day or more in cold or room temp water. i only know this because my gf makes iced cream with flowers, and the infusion is always done with cold (or room temp) liquid, and allowed to steep in the fridge for at least a day- then heated to facilitate the addition of other ingredients; then chilled again. so try soaking your flowers that way in a portion of the water before your boil... i am about to try this meself. will report back

 

[zeptrey]

Okay any results on this? Whats the general consensus? Room temp steep sounds good then maybe add that "tea" toward the very end of the boil? Stuff is everywhere here that and sand plums. Hmm...sand plum beer...sour maybe...ideas. :rockin: