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r4dyce

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Reposting here, didn't see this thread before... Hello,

Wondering if there are any bakers out there that might be able to help. Recently made some bread following this recipe: https://leitesculinaria.com/93...es-5-minute-artisan-bread.html

Followed the recipe as written. Had a really healthy rise after 2 hours. Made my dough ball. Rested for 40 minutes on my pizza peel. Cooked on a pizza stone that was preheated for about an hour. Cooked it for 35 minutes at 450. At that point it didn't look done but instant read clocked at 210. I took it out. It has an awesome crispy crust but the loaf is very flat, dense, and super pale. Top bottom and sides are all pale raw dough colored. It looks like it barely rose at all in the oven and didn't brown at all. Again the crust is awesome and the flavor is great, but too dense. (I didn't know you could have a crispy crust without browning.) I'd also note the loaf didn't have a crackly "sing" when I took it out as the author of that recipe states.

Any ideas what went wrong here?

Thanks!
 

beermanpete

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Reposting here, didn't see this thread before... Hello,

Wondering if there are any bakers out there that might be able to help. Recently made some bread following this recipe: https://leitesculinaria.com/93...es-5-minute-artisan-bread.html

Followed the recipe as written. Had a really healthy rise after 2 hours. Made my dough ball. Rested for 40 minutes on my pizza peel. Cooked on a pizza stone that was preheated for about an hour. Cooked it for 35 minutes at 450. At that point it didn't look done but instant read clocked at 210. I took it out. It has an awesome crispy crust but the loaf is very flat, dense, and super pale. Top bottom and sides are all pale raw dough colored. It looks like it barely rose at all in the oven and didn't brown at all. Again the crust is awesome and the flavor is great, but too dense. (I didn't know you could have a crispy crust without browning.) I'd also note the loaf didn't have a crackly "sing" when I took it out as the author of that recipe states.

Any ideas what went wrong here?

Thanks!
The lack of the oven-spring (rising in the oven) is generally from over proofing the dough. I suspect the color would be ok with a bit more time in the oven.
 

r4dyce

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The lack of the oven-spring (rising in the oven) is generally from over proofing the dough. I suspect the color would be ok with a bit more time in the oven.
Thanks for the reply. Can you elaborate what over proofing means? Sorry I'm just new to this. I let the dough raise the two hours as instructed. Do you think this was too long?
 

beermanpete

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Thanks for the reply. Can you elaborate what over proofing means? Sorry I'm just new to this. I let the dough raise the two hours as instructed. Do you think this was too long?
Over proofing is letting the dough rise too long. I have not tried the no-knead method so I don't know how long is too long. You will have too try it a few times with different rise times to find the best time for rising.
 

applescrap

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Reposting here, didn't see this thread before... Hello,

Wondering if there are any bakers out there that might be able to help. Recently made some bread following this recipe: https://leitesculinaria.com/93...es-5-minute-artisan-bread.html

Followed the recipe as written. Had a really healthy rise after 2 hours. Made my dough ball. Rested for 40 minutes on my pizza peel. Cooked on a pizza stone that was preheated for about an hour. Cooked it for 35 minutes at 450. At that point it didn't look done but instant read clocked at 210. I took it out. It has an awesome crispy crust but the loaf is very flat, dense, and super pale. Top bottom and sides are all pale raw dough colored. It looks like it barely rose at all in the oven and didn't brown at all. Again the crust is awesome and the flavor is great, but too dense. (I didn't know you could have a crispy crust without browning.) I'd also note the loaf didn't have a crackly "sing" when I took it out as the author of that recipe states.

Any ideas what went wrong here?

Thanks!
Thats a big dough ball if you cooked the whole batch at once? That would be tricky for sure. Did you work the dough? You dont want to work it much at all or at least I dont. Those bubbles from the rise I dont want to lose. Also it must cool to room temp or it will get dense. Thats the recipe I use for everything. The author calls for letting it rest for up to 90 minutes. I like to use it after a day or two in fridge. Did you mix yeast with the water? Water temp? Haha, I mixed a batch recently and forgot the yeast and put it in after and tried to mix it. Denser for sure. Drier dough I think more dense. Wetter, less. This is natural bread and is a little toothy by nature. Best of luck. Btw I bought the ebook for the recipes, but only use the master.
 

schematix

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Over proofing is letting the dough rise too long. I have not tried the no-knead method so I don't know how long is too long. You will have too try it a few times with different rise times to find the best time for rising.
My no knead sourdough takes all damn day but the flavor is off the charts...

4 hours autolyse, 3 hours stretch and folds then another 3 hours bench rise.

The issue could also be not enough rising, not wet enough dough or poor slashing.
 

r4dyce

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Thats a big dough ball if you cooked the whole batch at once? That would be tricky for sure. Did you work the dough? You dont want to work it much at all or at least I dont. Those bubbles from the rise I dont want to lose. Also it must cool to room temp or it will get dense. Thats the recipe I use for everything. The author calls for letting it rest for up to 90 minutes. I like to use it after a day or two in fridge. Did you mix yeast with the water? Water temp? Haha, I mixed a batch recently and forgot the yeast and put it in after and tried to mix it. Denser for sure. Drier dough I think more dense. Wetter, less. This is natural bread and is a little toothy by nature. Best of luck. Btw I bought the ebook for the recipes, but only use the master.
No it was about 1/3 of the dough. The rest is hanging out in the fridge. Water temp was right at 100F. It rose very well for 2 hours. Made my dough ball, let it rest again. It is dense but not dry at all , super crispy crust. Crust is a bit thicker than I imagined but I don't know if that's unexpected. Included a picture. It's actually lighter in person .
IMG_20190219_192711.jpeg
 

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No it was about 1/3 of the dough. The rest is hanging out in the fridge. Water temp was right at 100F. It rose very well for 2 hours. Made my dough ball, let it rest again. It is dense but not dry at all , super crispy crust. Crust is a bit thicker than I imagined but I don't know if that's unexpected. Included a picture. It's actually lighter in person .View attachment 613677
Looks dense
Edit: and undercooked
 

Resonator

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IMG_6593.JPG

Cross section of another loaf
Damn...I need to make another sourdough starter soon, but I need to keep it away from my beer stuff.
 

ericbw

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No it was about 1/3 of the dough. The rest is hanging out in the fridge. Water temp was right at 100F. It rose very well for 2 hours. Made my dough ball, let it rest again. It is dense but not dry at all , super crispy crust. Crust is a bit thicker than I imagined but I don't know if that's unexpected. Included a picture. It's actually lighter in person .View attachment 613677
When people talk about "proofing" or "over proofing," they're referring to the final rise at room temperature, after shaping. After you mix it and then let it sit at room temperature and then stash in the fridge - that's usually called fermenting or bulk fermenting. If you let proof/rise for too long, the dough starts to lose its ability to get poofy and hold its shape. It's tired.

Just to clarify the terms people often use.

Are you adding the hot water to the pan when you put it in the oven? If it's boiling or almost boiling, that's best. But you don't want too much steam for too long. Make sure your steam pan is empty after about 20 minutes.

Make sure it is a tight ball with a "skin" over the top and pinch the bottom together. It needs that tension to inflate well.

Have you tried baking it in a covered pot/dutch oven?

You can find good directions out there, but basically, heat a cast iron pot or dutch oven (or really any oven safe pot - people even use Pyrex or glass, but I've never tried it) to 450 for at least 30 minutes, but an hour is better. CAREFULLY put the loaf in the pot, put the lid on, and bake for 20 minutes. Take the lid off and bake for about 20 more minutes. With a small loaf like this, it will cook faster, so maybe do 10-15 with the lid and 20 without?

When you take the lid off, it is pale and smells a little doughy still. Then it gets brown and crispy.
 

r4dyce

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Thanks. In reviewing this and other advice I'm fairly certain A) I didn't make a tighter enough well shaped ball. And B) oven temp night have been low. I'll try it again in the Dutch oven sometime.
When people talk about "proofing" or "over proofing," they're referring to the final rise at room temperature, after shaping. After you mix it and then let it sit at room temperature and then stash in the fridge - that's usually called fermenting or bulk fermenting. If you let proof/rise for too long, the dough starts to lose its ability to get poofy and hold its shape. It's tired.

Just to clarify the terms people often use.

Are you adding the hot water to the pan when you put it in the oven? If it's boiling or almost boiling, that's best. But you don't want too much steam for too long. Make sure your steam pan is empty after about 20 minutes.

Make sure it is a tight ball with a "skin" over the top and pinch the bottom together. It needs that tension to inflate well.

Have you tried baking it in a covered pot/dutch oven?

You can find good directions out there, but basically, heat a cast iron pot or dutch oven (or really any oven safe pot - people even use Pyrex or glass, but I've never tried it) to 450 for at least 30 minutes, but an hour is better. CAREFULLY put the loaf in the pot, put the lid on, and bake for 20 minutes. Take the lid off and bake for about 20 more minutes. With a small loaf like this, it will cook faster, so maybe do 10-15 with the lid and 20 without?

When you take the lid off, it is pale and smells a little doughy still. Then it gets brown and crispy.
Thanks! In reviewing this and other advice I'm fairly certain A) I didn't make a tight enough well shaped ball. And B) oven temp might have been low. I'll try it again in the Dutch oven sometime soon.
 

bernardsmith

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When people talk about "proofing" or "over proofing," they're referring to the final rise at room temperature, after shaping.
Always learning. I thought proofing was always before the final shaping so that you proofed the dough and then shaped it before baking so that if you allowed the dough to proof too long you would damage the gluten threads and so you could not then get the dough to hold its shape as the shape is controlled by the elasticity and strength of the gluten
 

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408C053A-CB28-45A8-AF6F-A2A52CEABDC9.jpeg
Finally go some air pockets out of my 5 Minute Bread!
Any tips from the pros on what I may need to improve upon from the picture? It’s my fourth loaf and just trying to gain as much knowledge about the art.
 

AF1HomeBrew

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Deli Style Rye Bread (from Cook's Illustrated Baking book). This is my first attempt, and was worth the effort.

Baked these this morning to go with some Beef Brisket that I brined in corn beef seasonings for 9 days, then smoked last weekend, and some Irish Stout I brewed back in January.

DeliStyleRye_Oven20190314sm.jpg
DeliStyleRye_Cooling20190314sm.jpg
DeliStyleRye_Oven20190314sm.jpg
DeliStyleRye_Cooling20190314sm.jpg
 

TandemTails

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I had some WLP001 slurry sitting around that I wasn't going to use so I decided to make a bread starter out of it. About a month ago I started building it up like I would a sourdough starter. After about a week it was rapidly rising the yeast so I tried making some bread with it.

After a few successes using a little bit of bakers yeast to help with rising, I decided to do a couple loaves using only the 'chico sourdough' yeast.

Turmeric + Almonds:



Green Chile + Pepperjack cheese:
 

vanishingpint

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I had some WLP001 slurry sitting around that I wasn't going to use so I decided to make a bread starter out of it. About a month ago I started building it up like I would a sourdough starter. After about a week it was rapidly rising the yeast so I tried making some bread with it.

After a few successes using a little bit of bakers yeast to help with rising, I decided to do a couple loaves using only the 'chico sourdough' yeast.

Turmeric + Almonds:



Green Chile + Pepperjack cheese:
My god that looks good!
 

schematix

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Another item checked off the bucket list. Brioche buns loaded with egg and butter. Got tired of fake dry “brioche” buns from the store. Just because you add yellow dye doesn’t make it brioche, jackholes.

57447534246__36110FD8-F357-4070-A8BA-0A332E1F2DD0.jpg


Anyways, firing up the smoker for 16lbs of pork shoulder in about 2 hours for an overnight smoke. In case it turns out good this will be for lunch sandwiches.
 

NeilMac

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Nice!
Thats my next batch, ground flour this morning, will make the Brioche this afternoon.
 

Rake_Rocko

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Thanks. In reviewing this and other advice I'm fairly certain A) I didn't make a tighter enough well shaped ball. And B) oven temp night have been low. I'll try it again in the Dutch oven sometime. Thanks! In reviewing this and other advice I'm fairly certain A) I didn't make a tight enough well shaped ball. And B) oven temp might have been low. I'll try it again in the Dutch oven sometime soon.
Reading through your posts a few thoughts came to mind. I always bake my loaves in a Dutch oven because I don’t really have the means to steam my oven that well. But just as a reference, I bake my loaves (usually) 20 minutes at about 500 with lid on(temp depends on recipe) and then about 30 minutes with lid off at a lower temp, usually 450 or so. So based off of that, I’d say you didn’t give it enough time in the oven.

Also, I’ve been baking for quite some time now with a natural sourdough starter as well as instant yeast and I’ve come to find that it’s honestly pretty difficult to over-proof. In fact, I’ve let my doughs go way longer than what I’ve thought it should and they rise just fine.

What I also have done is not let it ferment and/or proof enough. I’ve gotten similar results as what you describe when I get too anxious and bake too soon.

To me, the pale-ness of your bread seems to be an indication of not baking long enough, and the flat/dense characteristics seems it was under fermented or under proofed.

Again just some thoughts that came to mind as I read about your troubleshooting. Happy baking!
 

TandemTails

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View attachment 618133View attachment 618134

I made a few loaves of marbled country bread. Natural leaven/sourdough with molasses and cocoa powder for color. I guess I could do thinner layers for more swirls, but I like the pattern.

The darker one is a boule.
Those look great! For the boule, how did you get the swirl in there? Did you simply roll the two versions together when you shaped them prior to proofing?
 

ericbw

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Those look great! For the boule, how did you get the swirl in there? Did you simply roll the two versions together when you shaped them prior to proofing?
Thanks!

I rolled the dark part out, then put ball of the light dough in the middle, slightly squished, but not flat. Then I puled the sides of the dark dough up to the middle (pull the top to the center, pull the right to the center, pull the bottom to the center, pull the left to the center). Pinched it closed, then flipped it over. I use a scraper and my hands to push it together into shape and get tension across the top of it, so I guess as you do that, more of the dark dough pushes up into the center. (Did I make any sense there?!?)

It was unexpected - I thought it would be more like a light colored center with dark around the edge. Now I know!
 

TandemTails

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My latest bake just came out of the oven. New Mexico red chile powder and piñon (pine nuts) sourdough.

Levain
* 50g starter
* 50g whole wheat flour
* 200g bread flour
* 200g water @ 85-90'F

Dough
* 410g bread flour
* 108g levain
* 320g water @90-95'F
* 11g sea salt
* 1 tsp red chile powder
* 60g piñon

Method
* start levain at 8:00am
* autolyse @ 3:30pm
* mix @ 4:00pm, 4x folds in first 3 hours, overnight bulk ferment
* proof @ 7:00am
* into oven 10-11am

Note: the levain is enough to make 3 loaves. I also baked a blue corn/rye and a spent grain loaf with the same levain
 

TandemTails

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This was from about two weeks ago. I used some spent grain flour from my last brew day in this loaf. My process for making the flour is to take grain from the mash tun after sparging, spread it about 1/4" thick on baking sheets and bake at around 225'F for a few hours until it's dried out, scraping it around a little bit to get even heat. After it's dried and cooled, I use a coffee grinder to grind the grain into a flour.



Full recipe and instructions here: https://alegrebread.home.blog/2019/04/03/spent-grain-hybrid-loaf/
 

TandemTails

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Another day, another cranberry + walnut sourdough. I've been making this bread a lot lately. I love the contrast between the dried cranberries and the earthiness of the walnuts. The sourdough bite goes well with those ingredients as well. This one was slightly over proofed so it didn't rise quite as much as I was hoping for.

I have the recipe and method here: https://alegrebread.home.blog/2019/04/09/cranberry-walnut-sourdough/





 
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