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pintocb

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I think I have one hell of a cider on my hands.

Recipe:
2 Gallons Pressed Apple Juice (I did it myself.....well, not really)
1 Gallon Pomegranate Juice
3 cans Apple Juice Frozen Concentrate
2 Cans Cranberry Juice Frozen Concentrate
2 lbs dark brown sugar
dry yeast (some kind of wine yeast. the wrapper got thrown away before I wrote down the number, and I'm still a noob. I asked for champagne yeast and the LHBS lady gave me this as they were out)

OG: 1.11
FG: 1.00 (Assuming its done. Very little airlock activity for a few days. Been in primary for two weeks.)


I'm going to check it on Tuesday. Will it be ok in primary for a few more weeks if I've opened it twice after fermentation has stopped? Will there be a better chance of bottle bombs due to the high ABV?

Thanks!

Cb
 

Ooompa Loompa

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I'd leave it another month, then move it to a secondary, and leave it another 6 months, then bottle it and leave it a year (two years or more would probably be better). You're at 14.5% alcohol, that's gonna take a LOT of aging before it's remotely drinkable.
 

Pogo

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I'm just wondering if those SG reading were corrected to 60oF?

If one reading was taken at a significantly different temperature from the other, then...well?

Sounds pretty astronomical to me!

But, everyday that you learn something, is a good day.

Pogo
 
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pintocb

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Is there an easy formula for doing the calculations mentioned? Would it change the result by more than 1% ABV? I'm planning on leaving it in primary until our first football game of the season (I'm a band director) then leaving it in bottles for a long while. I think I'll have to sample it from time to time, but I'm not going to even touch any of it until 2009, which will be 8 months from the brew date. Most of it will age a long time.

Cb
 

Nerro

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(OG-FG)*131 gives you a rough estimate of the ABV. Keep in mind though that when a fermentation is done the FG will be lower than 1.00 because ethanol has a lower density than water. 0.995 will often be closer to the truth.

As for your example: (1.110 - 1.000)*131 = 14.41% = ~14.5% ABV

But when you take the lower FG because of the ethanol into consideration you get the following: (1.110 - 0.995)*131 = 15.07% = ~15% ABV

So there you go. The high alcohol content will require a lot of aging to mellow out.

But be
 

Pogo

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pintocb -

In order for a Specific Gravity test reading to be accurate, the temperature of the liquid being tested should be at 60oF. Since practically nobody ferments and/or samples at a constant 60oF there is a chart to use to compute one's correct readings.

If the place where you keep your primary/secondary is, let's say, 74oF, for both OG and FG, then uncorrected readings, though technically OFF, would still be pretty close.

But, if the temperature of the FG test, differs from the OG test, then the results can really be off. The greater the difference, the greater the error.

I don't know about anyone else, but my hydrometer came with a sheet of instructions rolled up, and inserted, inside the plastic tube with the hydrometer itself.

At the bottom of all of this information is a section titled 'Temperature Corrections.'

There is a chart there that shows how to compute an accurate reading. I would attempt to key it in here, but the print is small, my vision is poor, and my typing is even worse.

Maybe a winemakers site like jackkellerdotnet will have this data online.

Pogo

EDIT: From jackkeller.net below...

"Most hydrometers are calibrated to give correct readings at 59-60 degrees Fahrenheit. Higher temperatures thin the liquid slightly and result in lower readings than you'd get at the correct temperature. At 70 degrees F., the reading will be 0.001 low. To correct it, add 0.001 to the reading. At 77 degrees F., add 0.002. At 84 degrees F., add 0.003. At 95 degrees F., add 0.005. At temperatures above 95 degrees F., you risk killing your yeast and losing your wine."
 

Pogo

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pintocb -

I'm really intrigued by these numbers of yours.

I've decided to try your recipe, or at least a smaller version.

What size did your batch ultimately turn out to be. I have a 6 gallon glass carboy to use, which, of course, will handle a 5 or 6 gallon recipe, but if you made a 6.5 gallon batch, then my numbers will be even bigger than yours if I use the exact same quanities, but just add water up to 6 gallons, right!

Does anyone know if the alcohol tolerance of yeast varies by variety, or is it pretty much universal?

Will wine/cider stay preserved under 10% ABV, and will a 14/15% ABV kill off most varieties of brewing yeasts?

Thanks,

Pogo
 

The Blow Leprechaun

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Will there be a better chance of bottle bombs due to the high ABV?
Alcohol % doesn't have anything to do with creating bottle bombs. Bottle bombs are created by bottling before fermentation is finished, or adding too much priming sugar.
Does anyone know if the alcohol tolerance of yeast varies by variety, or is it pretty much universal?
It varies, if you look up your yeast strain on the manufacturer's website, it'll probably say what it is. Most wine yeasts can handle quite a bit of alcohol, though.
Will wine/cider stay preserved under 10% ABV, and will a 14/15% ABV kill off most varieties of brewing yeasts?
It'll stay preserved under 10% just fine. 14-15% abv will kill off quite a few beer yeasts, but I think most wine yeasts will take to it just fine.
 
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pintocb

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Pogo,

My batch is slightly larger than 3 gallons. I have it in a 6.5 gallon bucket. I was planning on racking to my 3 gallon better bottle carboy, but from reading things here I think I'll just leave it where it is. When I took my last gravity reading I tasted it and it was good, though very sour. I added a pinch of splenda to see what the effect would be, and I didn't care for it at all. I am pretty sure I used a wine yeast, but I don't remember what it was. My closest HB store is 90% wine brewing and 10% everything else. I had asked for champagne yeast and found out that someone had bought all they had in stock earlier that day. What she gave me was her "best replacement". I have no idea what to expect from this as a finished product. I am planning on carbonating it, and aging it for a long while. My goal was to produce a strong, sour, dry but drinkable cider.
 

Pogo

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The Blow Leprechaun (HoooEeee, what a handle!) -

I've got a lot to learn, thanks for the pointers!

pintocb -

Ahhhhh...

I think that I'm seeing some light now.

Yes, 5 cans of frozen fruit juice concentrate, added to 3 gallons of fruit juice should be a pretty sweet concoction by the time a packet of yeast is added to it.

Plus, essentially, completely fermented @ 2 weeks...wow! Please ask the gal at your HBS if she remembers the yeast she gave you as a substitute for the champagne yeast. It may be the key to getting a two week fermentation.

In the world of ciders, this will have to be like rocket fuel. It seems that when using this exact recipe, the option to dilute for different tastes will always be available, such as water, juice, or 7Up, once it's in a glass even.

Thanks,

Pogo
 
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pintocb

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Bottled this yesterday and it is progressing pretty well. Still reading the same in the hydrometer. I added some sugar and put it in bottles. The yeast I used was Lalvin EC-1118. I've also put another batch of just apple cider in the carboy to age while this one sits in the bottles. Its still young, and sour beyond belief. I'll report back when I crack the first bottle around Halloween.
 

Pogo

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pintocb -

Thanks a lot for the update!

Yes, I love EC-1118! It has become my 'go to' yeast for any experiment. I keep at least six packets in reserve at all times.

I varied my first batch of Apfelwein by subsitiuting cane sugar for dextrose, and EC-1118 for Montrachet. It was wonderful!

BTW - I've also come to respect Premier Cuvee as well, and now hold it in the same high regard!

I'm thinking that age will fix the sourness. But, with Apfelwein, and all of its illegitimate cousins,I'm finding that aging is hard to tolerate.

Thanks again for the update,

Pogo
 
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pintocb

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It is hard to let it age. Its been carbing in the bottles for two whole days and I'm ready to crack one open. I'm going to make myself wait at least a month, then check to make sure it is carbing. I'll end up stashing some at another location so I won't be able to get to them. Sad, but it works.
 

quaxk

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It is hard to let it age. Its been carbing in the bottles for two whole days and I'm ready to crack one open. I'm going to make myself wait at least a month, then check to make sure it is carbing. I'll end up stashing some at another location so I won't be able to get to them. Sad, but it works.
Make more apfelwein, no more sadness :eek:
 
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pintocb

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I already have a batch in the carboy. Should be around 9 or 10 %. 2.5 gallons apple juice, six cans of concentrate, whatever bottling sugar I had left from bottling the last batch. OG was 1.080. It is four days old and smells like a sour swamp. Should taste great.
 
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pintocb

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My sister in law was in town this weekend and wanted to try my cranberry, apple, pomegranate batch, and that was a good enough excuse for me to chill one and crack it open. It has already developed a better flavor. The lacing on the glass is amazing. It almost looks like liquor. The only problem is carbonation. I will be patient, but I'm worried it isn't going to carb up.
 

CiderPat

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I just tested my first batch of cider, and my experiences are pretty close to yours- 3 gal of hand-pressed apple cider with 6 lbs sugar (four white, two brown), in the primary fermenter for two weeks, and hydrometer seems to indicate that it's at 14 percent alcohol and that all the sugar is gone-

I'll follow the same advice above (the reason I was looking for a homebrew forum and found this one), and have it ready to drink in a year or two...
 
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pintocb

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I still have three bottles of this. Its never carbonated, and the taste at this point is still very jet fuelish. I don't think I would consider this one a success. Maybe at the one year point I'll crack open another bottle to check the flavor. Sour/bitter at this point.
 

felix

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i'm not a fan of adding so much extracted fermentable sugars (from cane or corn or watever) to apple juice (heavy chaptalization). It definitely screws with the flavors big time. Use apple or other fruit juice concentrates if you want to boost the buzz factor, keep a nice flavor profile and a healthy fermentation (less weird alcohols etc).

Ciders are meant to be lightly alcoholic, and full of apple aromatics. A summer's thirst quencher :)
 
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pintocb

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i'm not a fan of adding so much extracted fermentable sugars (from cane or corn or watever) to apple juice (heavy chaptalization). It definitely screws with the flavors big time. Use apple or other fruit juice concentrates if you want to boost the buzz factor, keep a nice flavor profile and a healthy fermentation (less weird alcohols etc).

Ciders are meant to be lightly alcoholic, and full of apple aromatics. A summer's thirst quencher :)
I agree, but making rocket fuel was one of the bugs I had to work out of my system as a noob. I'm currently trying to figure out a way to make a tasty cider that is weaker than just juice and yeast. I'll be playing around with that and my 2.5 gallon carboy this summer.
 
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