Hoegaarden clone taste water

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pokerloict

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Hi,

I tried to brew a Hoegaarden clone with the following recipe:

  • 4.5 lbs (2 kg) Belgian Two-row Pilsner Malt
  • 4.5 lbs (2 kg) Flaked Unmalted Wheat
  • 0.2 oz (5.5 g) American Nugget Whole Hops 12% AA (60 min)
  • 0.25 oz (7 g) Czech Saaz Whole Hops 4%AA (15 min)
  • 0.25 oz (7 g) Styrian Goldings 5% AA (15 min)
  • 0.25 tbs Irish Moss (15min)
  • 1.0 oz (28 g) Freshly ground coriander seed (5 min)
  • 0.25 oz (7 g) Dried ground curacao orange peel (5 min)
  • Yeast - Mangrove Jack's Belgian Wit - M21
Second week of fermentation: Adding 1.0 oz (28 g) Freshly ground coriander seed + 1.0 oz (28 g) Dried ground bitter orange peel. Continue to ferment for 2 more week and than keg. Carbonated the beer with the quickcarb at taste it the day after

Fermentation temperature: 63 (room temperature) for the first 4 days, then 66 for the rest of the fermentation

The issues is that the beer has no orange taste at all. It almost taste like water with some subtil hops flavor. It really taste like if the beer has been diluated, but I got the target abv.

Somebody has an idea of what I could did wrong? Thank
 

IslandLizard

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What were your OG and FG?
Proper carbonation and a good thick head when pouring is a big part of the mouthfeel and aroma experience of these beers too.
Is it hazy?

  • 1.0 oz (28 g) Freshly ground coriander seed (5 min)
  • 0.25 oz (7 g) Dried ground curacao orange peel (5 min)

Second week of fermentation: Adding 1.0 oz (28 g) Freshly ground coriander seed + 1.0 oz (28 g) Dried ground bitter orange peel.

Did you add the coriander and orange peel to the boil (your recipe says 5 min)?
Or added to the fermenter at the 2nd week? It's not clear...

Those dried chunks of orange peel could be older than Methuselah, but grinding them before adding should give you something.
7g in 5 gallons can be quite subtle. Maybe add some more to the keg? Or some fresh, thinly shaved off orange zest (use a sharp potato peeler).
 
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pokerloict

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@IslandLizard Yes the beer is hazy. Refer to picture (This is the homebrew, not a real hoegaarden)

I added 1.0 oz of freshly ground coriander seed + 1.0 oz of Dried freshly ground bitter orange peel to the fermenter for 2 week and also add coriander and orange peel at the end of the boil (5min)

For the carbonation, I used 17psi at 35 for 1 hours of recirculation in the pump

I will try to add more orange peel in keg but it sounds weird
 

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IslandLizard

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Did you add the powder/ground spice directly to the keg fermenter or in a mesh baggy/tea ball?
Have you agitated the keg fermenter a few times during those 2 weeks to mix it well?

Oh I see, you added to both the boil and the fermenter.
I agree, you should be able to taste it, that's quite a load. Especially the coriander.
 
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pokerloict

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I added the spice directly in the fermenter but I did not agitated at all.
 

IslandLizard

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I added the spice directly in the fermenter but I did not agitated at all.
After 2 weeks I'd expect at least some flavor to have been incorporated. Maybe it was just floating on top of the krausen.

But since you can't taste it, you may as well add more to the keg. You need to contain it somehow or the little pieces will show up in your glass.
BTW, has anyone else tasted it?

Re-purge that headspace well after lifting the lid, you don't want to oxidize that beer.
 

Rish

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You could make a tincture by putting orange zest and coriander seeds (cracked) in vodka for a week or so, shaking a couple of times a day, then add the liquid to the keg. That eliminates floaties clogging things up. I usually use one ounce of each for 5 gallons.
 
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pokerloict

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Cool, ill put more in the keg for this brew. But what's the main difference between adding spice during last 5-10min of boil or adding spice as dry hop in the fermenter or keg? Does the orange peel could has more flavor if I add all during boil and nothing in fermentation.

For the tincture, does this gave a vodka taste to homebrew? Because I hate vodka
 

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Don't overdo coriander, make sure you stick to what recipes generally state, and yes, imo, 7g in the boil is just pointless. One needs 1 g/l.
so 25g should do it. crushing it is a good thing I'd surmise. Also, I often throw a bit pepper into mine, but this is purely just me doing it on a whim; sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't ,)

I am drinking my own Hoegaarden clone atm, but despite a plethora of home brewers, esp. in some countries wink wink, overdo their hop additions, I am fairly certain you want at least 14-15g pellets (American nugget) in that small brew there (only 4kg, hmm make sure your fermenter is small enough for that so you don't get too much overhead for the yeast). Anyway, given you use whole hops, I believe you have to target 5 times more, i.e. 75g! You might also wanna add some high acid hops towards the end of the boil too.

P.S. I am assuning 25l as that is what I usually recipe for. I use 6kg bases though for mine, and my current Belgian witte has 6.5% abv. I know, I know, but I don't mind sometimes experimenting, especially upwards ,)
 
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goddess

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Forgot to add, the 'orange taste' is just bitterness, in a special way (some flavours sure but it doesn't stand out as a singular flavour imo).

It's an alternative to hopping, just like erm, Myrica gale used to be in Scandinavia. The Hanseaters fooled the scandis into believing it was poisonous etc to sell then their brought hops, and it worked! Today we only use hops in beers (and curacao peel say ,p), but back then, 15th century? Myrica was so important a plant, (beyond just bittering, had like 250+ uses or so iirc :p) it would be part of property contracts etc (these are the examples used in current references). But ye, the King of Norway I believe in some of his property declarations would define what Myrica was his or not. Sadly I live around where it is meant to be, but I have yet to find some, it all got chopped down in the 60s etc :((( Modern people, ugh, Ted Kaszynski was a genius alright. ,)
 

2_gal_brewer

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You might be interested in the book "Beer Captured" it is full of tested clone recipes. Their Hoegaarden (5 gal) uses for flavor - 1/4 oz Bitter orange peel, 3/4 tsp crushed coriander, 1/8 tsp crushed cumin and 1/2 oz Kent Goldings in last 15 min of boil and 1/2 oz peel, 1/2 tsp Coriander, 1/6 tsp Cumin and 1/2 oz Czech Saaz in last 2 min of boil, chill 20 min then strain.
They use Wyeast 3463 yeast or 3944.
I have used the 3463, but the closest brew I got was using WLP400. But I do not do all grain, I use Mr Beer hopped extract as base and then partial mash and on top.
I also found that 3 weeks in bottle was not enough time to mature the brew.
 
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