Hitachino Nest White Yeast?

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khbrew

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Was wondering if anyone knew if the yeast in the bottle of the Hitachino Nest White was the fermentation yeast or just for bottling? Trying to create a clone and thought I might want to harvest the yeast if it is in fact the right one.

Thanks!
 

McKBrew

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I searched google and couldn't find much information for you. I'd never heard of this beer until today. I'm actually suprised to see such a wide variety from a Japanese brewery. Without any other information I'd recommend a standard witbier yeast in it's place.

The Kiuchi Brewery does have an English language site, and perhaps you could contact them for assistance.
 

Revvy

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WOW....I'm so glad you asked this question, even though I don't have an answer...but now I want to try some of those ales...

Thanks!

So what's you clone recipe for the white?
 
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khbrew

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Well have not tried this yet, but this is where I'm heading. Since I'm an extract brewer I know that the color is not going to be right, but I think this is a good start. Any pointers are very welcome.

6.25 lbs of Wheat LE
.5 lbs of Candi Sugar, clear

.75 lbs Pale Malt (2 row)
.5 lbs Car-Pils
.06 lbs Belgian Aromatic

.75 oz Pearle (7.2%) 60 min
.5 oz Styrian Goldings (5.4%) 5 min

.05 oz Nutmeg 5 min
.5 oz Bitter Orange
.75 Coriander Seed

Think of using either harvest from bottle or White Labs Belgian Wit II
 

homebrewjapan

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Hitachino make two white beers - their White Ale and Weizen. They use different yeast. As far as I know, the White Ale uses their standard ale yeast - the flavours come from the spices used rather than the yeast.

I have a clone of the White Ale on my website - I made it at Kiuchi (Hitachino) brewery:
Making beer at the Kiuchi Brewery » Homebrew Japan

Kiuchi-san is a nice guy - send him and email and I'm sure he'll be happy to send you info about the yeast.
 

headfullahops

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Most of the time that breweries bottle condition ales, they filter out the ale yeast and add highly flocculent and fresh lager yeast to the bottle for conditioning. That's why the yeast is usually clumped together on the bottom of the bottle. Even German Hefeweizen is bottled in this fashion.
 

BarleyWater

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For a fee they will design a beer with you, guide you through the beer making process, then when the beer is bucketed and ready for yeast pitching, they’ll pitch the yeast, watch fermentation, bottle it, and deliver it to you.
This is cool, kinda like a brew on premises place, but differenter. I should offer this to my friends for a fee.
 

DRoyLenz

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Hitachino make two white beers - their White Ale and Weizen. They use different yeast. As far as I know, the White Ale uses their standard ale yeast - the flavours come from the spices used rather than the yeast.

I have a clone of the White Ale on my website - I made it at Kiuchi (Hitachino) brewery:
Making beer at the Kiuchi Brewery » Homebrew Japan

Kiuchi-san is a nice guy - send him and email and I'm sure he'll be happy to send you info about the yeast.
HBJ, I'm having a tough time finding your post regarding your experience at Kiuchi, and I'm very interested in checking out the clone recipe you used for their white ale. Would you mind posting the recipe here, or even an updated link to the blog entry?

Thanks!
 

opteek

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I too am interested in brewing this beer. The original page seems to be gone but I found a copy in googles cache. Here is the recipe:

This was to be as close to Hitachino Nest White Ale as possible. While we were told this was the same recipe, when visiting the new brewery I saw one of these being made. Our recipe had the orange peel ground with the coriander but in the whirlpool tank in the factory, orange peel was in a bag in the tank – so our recipe can’t be exactly the same.

2 Row: 4700g
Wheat: 2200g

1st hops: 20g, Perle pellets
2nd: none
3rd: 30g, Styrian Goldings pellets
4th: none
End: 50g coriander, 30g dried orange peel, 8g nutmeg – all ground

For mashing the wheat beer, there was 10m at 40 degrees, recirculate 5 x 2L (out through the tap at the bottom, pour back onto the grain), then 10m at 50 degrees, recirculate 5 x 2L, bring temp to 65 degrees, recirculate 2 x 2L, then 40m at 65 degrees, recirculate 5 x 2L, iodine test, then temperature was brought up to 76 degrees for 10 minutes filtering (take out wort slowly from the tap and pour back in slowly) and then lautering (sprinkling on 76 degrees water while taking out wort and pouring into another tank for boiling).

Boil volume was 30L. The aim was to bottle 15L, but I’m guessing there was about 20L (maybe more) after boiling – some was wasted in the cooling pipes.

Some important notes about the White Ale:

1. Use a grinder to grind the coriander and orange peel. I tried making the white ale at home by just crushing the coriander with a rolling pin – it doesn’t give the same result.

2. The version above came out a little more spicy than the real white ale – a little bit more nutmeg and coriander taste – but I wouldn’t play about with the ratios too much. Again, when I made this at home again, I added extra orange peel and the orange taste just ended up overpowering.

3. Frequently taste. When you are using these spices, an extra day in the primary can make the difference between a nice beer and one which has too strong a flavour.
 

opteek

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FYI, The page has moved to here (and has been updated with tasting notes):

http://beerinjapan.com/bij/780/kiuchi-brewery-ibaraki/
Thanks for posting the new link. I found the new site but couldn't find that specific page for some reason. The pics are awesome! I will definitely be checking out the rest of your blog.

Edit: It would be great if a mod could merge this thread with this thread as the recipes forum is a more appropriate place for this discussion.

I'm hoping a more advanced brewer will tackle this recipe and fine-tune it for a 5 gal batch for the rest of us noobs.
 

pilzner

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Now that Hitachino is everywhere....you must have all had a taste by now.
Has anyone figured out what yeast to use in the Hitachino nest white?
Where do all those sour notes come from?
Would it be possible to culture the yeast....I've never done that so it might be a silly question.
Thanks
Sebastian
 

chrisw61

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You mentioned that you brewed this at home. What yeast did you use? I'm looking to create the White Ale myself!

Much appreciated!
 

rollermt

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I'm planning to brew a White Ale soon. After doing a tasting with decent range of wheat beers (Belgian-, German-, and US-styles), my friend and I decided that that Hitachino Nest White Ale would best represent what we're going for. I appreciate the notes from everyone so far.

Are there any updates about a yeast? One post mentioned that the yeast had a clean flavor, so I'm wondering if it's better to use something like Safale US-05 rather than a traditional Witbier yeast like WLP400. If I don't hear anything, I'll probably stick with tradition...

Also, I plan to do this with extract plus grain. Does anyone have any recommendations for converting the 4700 g of 2-row and 2200 g of wheat into an extract version?

Thanks!
 

emjay

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I really liked Hitachino Nest White Ale... nice to know the Japanese can do better than Sapporo and Asahi! The brewery has the unusual practice of putting orange juice right in the beer, so if you're doing a clone, you'll probably want to do this too!

As for the yeast, I couldn't say what is closest, but I wouldn't say it's a neutral yeast. My best guess (on memory, so take that with a grain of salt) would be WLP410 (Belgian Wit II) rather than WLP400. And as luck would have it, WLP410 is a Platinum Collection strain for May/June... so get it now before it disappears for another year!

I'm brewing a wit with a friend very soon using this yeast again, so I'll be able to make a direct comparison. I'll report back with notes in about 2 months :D
 

janivar123

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Does anyone have any recommendations for converting the 4700 g of 2-row and 2200 g of wheat into an extract version?

63% wheat extract sinse it is usually 50%wheat
rest light extract

Not sure about the amounts needed tho
 

emjay

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janivar123 said:
Does anyone have any recommendations for converting the 4700 g of 2-row and 2200 g of wheat into an extract version?

63% wheat extract sinse it is usually 50%wheat
rest light extract

Not sure about the amounts needed tho
It really depends on the efficiency of the system that recipe was meant for, and the extracts used. For Briess DME (or any other brand of DME which makes a wheat extract that is only 50% wheat), it would be about 1250g light DME, and 2200g wheat DME.
 

Phillyphoodie

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Sorry for the bump, but is that dried bitter or sweet orange peel? I am really excited to try this recipe. I LOVE Hitachino beers, but they are $90 a case in Pa.
 

unionrdr

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Just to back peddle a bit,one of you said the coriander was better ground. Would this also be true for grains of paradise?
 

theveganbrewer

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I just got this beer as a birthday present and loved it. I wanted to clone it and went to their website and it said, "coriander, nutmeg, orange peel, and orange juice. Orange juice? Why am I not seeing any recipes with the OJ? Is this what's been missing, what creates that extra little bit of tartness?
 

cram

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No doubt--that is a tasty beer. I'll be curious if someone has a clone that's close and/or knows what yeast strain to use. I can't recall if the beer is bottle-conditioned...to harvest our own...do you know?
 

emjay

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theveganbrewer said:
I just got this beer as a birthday present and loved it. I wanted to clone it and went to their website and it said, "coriander, nutmeg, orange peel, and orange juice. Orange juice? Why am I not seeing any recipes with the OJ? Is this what's been missing, what creates that extra little bit of tartness?
Yes, they use orange juice. The tartness most likely comes from a good amount of unmalted wheat though.
 

theveganbrewer

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Yes, they use orange juice. The tartness most likely comes from a good amount of unmalted wheat though.
Thanks, I emailed thew brewery and this was their response:

Hello,

The percentage of orange juice is 1.5%.

Thank you.
So that's 9.6 ounces of OJ per 5 gallons of White Ale.
 

Thundercougarfalconbird

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I always see these beers but haven't bought one because of the poor track record of most Japanese beers for me. I'll definitely be snagging one this weekend. :mug:
 

s0m3f00l

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When should I add the coriander, nutmeg, orange peel, and orange juice? I am making this soon and don't know when to add these ingredients? Sorry for the thread resuscitation...
 

theveganbrewer

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Here are my notes:

#6 Pilsner Malt
#4 Wheat, Flaked
8oz Barley, Flaked

0.5oz Perle 45 min
0.5oz Styrian Goldings 5 min

0.25oz nutmeg (5 min)
0.5oz bitter orange peel (5 min)
0.75oz coriander (5 min)

1.25 cups of tangy OJ after fermentation is complete.

I'm torn on the yeast. WLP Belgian Wit II is my recommendation, but I used 400 because 410 was a special release only for the summer. That said, I did not think I was close enough on the yeast and have picked up similar characters in other beers I've done with WLP510 that were similar to the White Ale. I haven't tried 510 in the white ale, so up to you, if you want to do WLP510 or WLP400. Optimal is WLP410.

Watch the spices carefully. Too long and they will overpower. Do not add the OJ until fermentation is completely finished or it will be bad news for the brew.

I mashed 30 minutes at 122, 30 minutes at 154, and 10 minutes at 168.
 

s0m3f00l

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Did you use a spice bag or something? If I add those spices at the five minute mark... Id be hard pressed to remove them when I rack to secondary. I assume the coriander and nutmeg dissolved and could not be removed and we are really talking about the bitter orange peel. This is going to be a complex one so I think WLP410 is definitely the ideal. It would add spiciness notes. Though WLP510 is probably the best I will be able to do.
 

theveganbrewer

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No, I just added to the boil, no bag and didn't remove them. Good luck, let us know how it turns out.
 

emjay

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I recommend using tangerine juice rather than orange juice for a character that seems truer to the original.
 

theveganbrewer

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I recommend using tangerine juice rather than orange juice for a character that seems truer to the original.
That could be it, I used to live in Korea and Japan and their OJ is just different than what we get here.
 

goodsuds

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That is a really cool blog post, thanks for the link. Is the bad english translation intentional that I see it several times? "Let's drinking with enjoy!"
 
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