Hill Farmstead Saison

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Vogt52

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Anyone had any success brewing a HF style Saison? What did your water profile look like? Hops used? Any other suggestions welcome.
 

bsc

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yes!

highly recommend reading the above link, using it as a guide and also culturing some good yeast.
rumor is they (currently) bottle with wine yeast, but I have still had luck culturing brett/bacteria from dregs.
 

More Betterness

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And on that note just bought a vial! Let's get some teamwork up in this bitch! Too bad I'm out of HF to culture on top of the Brett vial! :(
 

Mugatu

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Just finished a 3 month fermentation of a saison / grisette using Omega Yeast Labs C2C American Farmhouse. Its Hill Farmstead yeast with Logsdon Brett. Really impressed by it... didn't even change the water profile as I wanted to keep all things constant to see how it performed but it really tastes like a HF beer.

65% Pale Malt
25% White Wheat
10% Flaked Oats
Saaz @ FWH
Citra @ 10
Wish I would've dry hopped though :(

Not fully carbed yet in this photo
ry%3D480
 

Evahflow

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Wyeast 3726 will be a good base and produces a very distinct mouth feel that their saisons have (most seem to attribute to water/cereal grains). I'd follow any advice from the Farmhouse ales book for water profile etc. Pilner malt + Wheat and maybe some munich. The FG of their beers lead me to believe they mash higher 152-154 ish because with my culture of 3726 my beers hit 1.002 within 3 days and that's with no brett involved. There are multiple strains of brett/souring bacteria in them although a few seem to be dominant notably Brett C+ Drie. If you happen to have aggressive souring bacteria hop a bit higher and pitch it in secondary. If not pitch everything in primary. Ferment 6-8 weeks then bottle with champagne yeast to 3.2+Vols for a minimum of 6 weeks. The beer will continue to develop in the bottle.
 

FTowne1

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Wyeast 3726 will be a good base and produces a very distinct mouth feel that their saisons have (most seem to attribute to water/cereal grains). I'd follow any advice from the Farmhouse ales book for water profile etc. Pilner malt + Wheat and maybe some munich. The FG of their beers lead me to believe they mash higher 152-154 ish because with my culture of 3726 my beers hit 1.002 within 3 days and that's with no brett involved. There are multiple strains of brett/souring bacteria in them although a few seem to be dominant notably Brett C+ Drie. If you happen to have aggressive souring bacteria hop a bit higher and pitch it in secondary. If not pitch everything in primary. Ferment 6-8 weeks then bottle with champagne yeast to 3.2+Vols for a minimum of 6 weeks. The beer will continue to develop in the bottle.
I'm not sure why you'd have to repitch bottling yeast if you are only fermenting for >2 months.
 

More Betterness

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Just finished a 3 month fermentation of a saison / grisette using Omega Yeast Labs C2C American Farmhouse. Its Hill Farmstead yeast with Logsdon Brett. Really impressed by it... didn't even change the water profile as I wanted to keep all things constant to see how it performed but it really tastes like a HF beer.

65% Pale Malt
25% White Wheat
10% Flaked Oats
Saaz @ FWH
Citra @ 10
Wish I would've dry hopped though :(

Not fully carbed yet in this photo
ry%3D480

Did it get quite as acidic as HF saisons? Beautiful beer!
 

Mugatu

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Did it get quite as acidic as HF saisons? Beautiful beer!

Not quite to the same level but it has the mineral qualities and mouthfeel I like about HF. I'm not sure it's the yeasts fault about the lack of acidity... the O.G. was only around 1.035-1.040 if I remember correctly so it's pretty low alcohol (3-4%) and 3 months seems pretty young for a saison/Brett beer. Next time I'm leaving it for 6 months or so
 
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Vogt52

Vogt52

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Not quite to the same level but it has the mineral qualities and mouthfeel I like about HF. I'm not sure it's the yeasts fault about the lack of acidity... the O.G. was only around 1.035-1.040 if I remember correctly so it's pretty low alcohol (3-4%) and 3 months seems pretty young for a saison/Brett beer. Next time I'm leaving it for 6 months or so

What was your water chemistry like?
 

More Betterness

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Not quite to the same level but it has the mineral qualities and mouthfeel I like about HF. I'm not sure it's the yeasts fault about the lack of acidity... the O.G. was only around 1.035-1.040 if I remember correctly so it's pretty low alcohol (3-4%) and 3 months seems pretty young for a saison/Brett beer. Next time I'm leaving it for 6 months or so

What did your IBUs look like? Probably going to pitch some form of lacto in my attempt to get that perfect tartness Shaun's saisons have but don't want to limit the bacteria with too many BUs.
 

jivex5k1

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Cross post from what's brewing this month, going to try an extract hill farmstead-esque saison with the TYB184 strain:

I've got the itch again, going to do another extract brew this weekend. Got some rye extract this time, threw together this recipe:

https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/extract-rye-saison-w-trill-farmstead-brett

3.3 lbs liquid rye extract
4 lbs pilsen DME

2 oz Saaz First Wort Hop, 60 minute boil.

Going to let the saison yeast work first and then finish with the brett in a secondary.
EDIT- Nevermind, they recommend doing it alongside other yeast so I'll pitch it at the same time.

Doing it up this weekend.
 

More Betterness

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Anybody know a relatively hop tolerant strain of LAB? From everything I can gather most HF saisons are 20-30 IBUs but still get a decent amount of tartness?
 

drgarage1

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More seriously, the LAB found in HF dregs can definitely take it. A recent beer I made with their dregs in secondary wasn't tart at all for a long time (probably 35 IBU) but started to sour up a bit at 6 months in bottle. My guess is it's pedio doing the work, which makes brett all the more important...
 
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Vogt52

Vogt52

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Lactobacillis Brevis is fairly hop tolerant. May want to pitch a large amount if you're upwards of 30ibu.
 
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Vogt52

Vogt52

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More seriously, the LAB found in HF dregs can definitely take it. A recent beer I made with their dregs in secondary wasn't tart at all for a long time (probably 35 IBU) but started to sour up a bit at 6 months in bottle. My guess is it's pedio doing the work, which makes brett all the more important...

This sounds right. Pediococcus is notorious for delayed souring. Pediococcus cerevisiae is a hop tolerant strain used in brewing. And just as drgarage said using Pediococcus makes using Brett a must to clean up the diacetyl
 

TripleSixHoppia

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Pretty sure they don't kettle sour their saisons.

-_________-

Anybody know a relatively hop tolerant strain of LAB? From everything I can gather most HF saisons are 20-30 IBUs but still get a decent amount of tartness?

100% strain dependent. Plantarum dies at 5 ibu, brevis gets up in the 30s. Jeff Mellow at Bootleg Biology has a fast souring Pedio that apparently can take a **** ton of hops.

It also depends on the hops used, because it's the alpha acids that are the main killer.
 

Five28 hz

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-_________-




100% strain dependent. Plantarum dies at 5 ibu, brevis gets up in the 30s. Jeff Mellow at Bootleg Biology has a fast souring Pedio that apparently can take a **** ton of hops.

It also depends on the hops used, because it's the alpha acids that are the main killer.
Is it just the alpha acids or hop oils in general ? I've had beers where the only additions were big FO and/or whirlpool additions, they saw very little LAB production. whenever that happens, I go with JP dregs and end up all right.
 

drgarage1

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Is it just the alpha acids or hop oils in general ? I've had beers where the only additions were big FO and/or whirlpool additions, they saw very little LAB production. whenever that happens, I go with JP dregs and end up all right.
Alpha acids or isoalpha acids? Makes a big difference, and there are plenty of alpha acids from flameout additions, they just don't isomerize into isoalphas.
 

Five28 hz

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Alpha acids or isoalpha acids? Makes a big difference, and there are plenty of alpha acids from flameout additions, they just don't isomerize into isoalphas.
Question is really, is it just isoalphas or alpha, myrcene, humulene etc. that get extracted at lower temps throughout the cooling process?
 

Ziggy

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C53CD8B6-A060-4C02-B54E-CF0E463F289E_zpsfkmkirwm.jpg


Threw these in a starter last night and will be an Anna-ish beer on Sunday!

14829_zpsdnsluabi.jpeg



Left carboy is "clean" saison yeast.

Right carboy is the C2C Omega blend with dregs from a bottle of HF Anna.

Color difference is very interesting. Not sure what the cause is really. Both were same exact color on day one. Any idea what can cause wort to darken? I'm still a bit of a fermentation noob.
 

Ziggy

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Recipe if you don't mind!

10 gal Recipe expected OG 1.06 FG 1.01 - 1.015 ABV is 6ish

16 # Pilsner malt
4 # American wheat
1 # flaked oat
1 # honey malt
1 # corn sugar (which we forgot to add, but we did add 1 lb of light DME to boost the gravity a bit since we are working out the kinks of our new mash tun)

Mashed @ 148 for 90 min

90 min boil

2 oz Saaz @t 90 (AA @ 3-5 %)
2 oz Saaz @ 45
Dextrose @ 10 (which we forgot to add)
2 oz Citra @ 5 min (AA 11- 15 %)


5 gal got C2C Omega blend and direct pitch of dregs from a bottle of HF Anna after aerating.

5 gal got a "clean" farmhouse yeast (not sure what it was exactly, Vogt52 was the one who bought it. I got the C2C)
 
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Vogt52

Vogt52

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10 gal Recipe expected OG 1.06 FG 1.01 - 1.015 ABV is 6ish

16 # Pilsner malt
4 # American wheat
1 # flaked oat
1 # honey malt
1 # corn sugar (which we forgot to add, but we did add 1 lb of light DME to boost the gravity a bit since we are working out the kinks of our new mash tun)

Mashed @ 148 for 90 min

90 min boil

2 oz Saaz @t 90 (AA @ 3-5 %)
2 oz Saaz @ 45
Dextrose @ 10 (which we forgot to add)
2 oz Citra @ 5 min (AA 11- 15 %)


5 gal got C2C Omega blend and direct pitch of dregs from a bottle of HF Anna after aerating.

5 gal got a "clean" farmhouse yeast (not sure what it was exactly, Vogt52 was the one who bought it. I got the C2C)


The clean yeast was French Saison by wyeast.
 

Mugatu

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Anyone want to compare Weiner sizes? I can send you a few bottles of mine and you can figure out if you want to send yours 3-12 months from now.

I fermented C2C at 68 degrees
 
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