Higher gravity than expected

[ryantollefson]

This is my second batch, so there is a good chance I have missed something basic. Beer is in the fermenter now. This is a Brown Biscuit Ale - recipe pretty much from here: (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f67/bbd-brown-biscuit-121279/)
It is three weeks today and I just did my first hydrometer reading. It was higher than expected.

OG: 1.050
Measured at 3 weeks: 1.018

I used rehydrated SafAle US-04 at 62.6F (17C) for the first several days, then let it rise to 66.2F (19C) and it has been there for over two weeks. I definitely saw good fermentation activity to start, but would have expected the reading to be lower by now. I would also expect this to be fully fermented at 3 weeks, but I'll wait a few more days and do another reading before deciding on that.

For the sample I took, it was very clear, but lighter color than I expected, very little aroma, and not as flavorful as I expected - though it did taste better to me by the end of the sample.

Thoughts/tips?

 

[dkeller12]

I have had the exact same issue with s-04. Stopped fermenting at 1.024 on a porter at 3.5 weeks. Warmed the fermenter up and swirled it trying to get it going and had no luck. I ended up pitching some us-05 from a yeast cake from another batch to get it finished.

Since yours isn't as high as mine was, I would let it go and see what happens and if it doesn't drop, try swirling the fermenter gently to see if you can rouse the yeast. What is the expected FG? Could be that the extract used didn't have the fermentability that it needed and is done. Give it time so you don't have bottle bombs.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[andy6026]

I've actually never used US-04, but judging by your recipe that "may" be close to a correct FG.

Some of your ingredients are foreign to me, but from what I understand the Biscuit Malt and Cara-pils are unfermentable. If that's also the case with the 'Special B Malt' (which I'm not familiar with) then you've got 2 lbs of unfermentables vs 6.5 lbs of fermentables. If my assumptions are correct (and they may well be wrong) then that's a high ratio of unfermentales to fermentables. On the other hand, beer smith has estimated the FG to be 1.013

I'd wait until someone who understands grain bills better than I do to come along before believing what I'm saying here though.

One thing you can do that will be harmless is to give the fermenter some gentle agitation - that can wake things up enough to get a few more points out of it.

 

[andy6026]

I thumbed through the thread you got the recipe from and somebody else who brewed it (with a modified recipe I think? - I lost track of who's who in the thread), ended up with a FG of 1.022.

It's on the second page:

"My OG was 1.053 I believe, FG 1.022. "

Give that fermenter a bit of a shake, and if you don't drop any points I'd go ahead and bottle it by next weekend.

 

[Dave_K]

At what temperature was the reading taken? Temperature effects the reading. Also, these hydrometers aren't always well celebrated.
From your pictures it looks like you had a strong fermentation and no reason to assume a stall.
If you want to play it safe wait a little longer and check the gravity again to see if it drops. Agitation at this point has a high risk of oxidation. Personally, I think you're good to get it bottled

 

[ryantollefson]

What is the expected FG? Could be that the extract used didn't have the fermentability that it needed and is done. Give it time so you don't have bottle bombs.

Expected based off BeerSmith = 1.013
Expected based off recipe on linked page = 1.015

These are pretty close, so I would have expected lower than 1.018, but maybe not?

I've actually never used US-04, but judging by your recipe that "may" be close to a correct FG.

Some of your ingredients are foreign to me, but from what I understand the Biscuit Malt and Cara-pils are unfermentable. If that's also the case with the 'Special B Malt' (which I'm not familiar with) then you've got 2 lbs of unfermentables vs 6.5 lbs of fermentables. If my assumptions are correct (and they may well be wrong) then that's a high ratio of unfermentales to fermentables. On the other hand, beer smith has estimated the FG to be 1.013

I'd wait until someone who understands grain bills better than I do to come along before believing what I'm saying here though.

One thing you can do that will be harmless is to give the fermenter some gentle agitation - that can wake things up enough to get a few more points out of it.

I used 7lbs of liquid extract, the rest (2.5lbs) was steeped grains, so should be unfermentable regardless.

At what temperature was the reading taken? Temperature effects the reading. Also, these hydrometers aren't always well celebrated.
From your pictures it looks like you had a strong fermentation and no reason to assume a stall.
If you want to play it safe wait a little longer and check the gravity again to see if it drops. Agitation at this point has a high risk of oxidation. Personally, I think you're good to get it bottled

Temp was approx 70F at time of reading. I also thought about that with the hydrometer, so I checked it against H2O & got 1.000.

Would shaking the carboy at this point risk oxidation? Shouldn't there be a pretty solid layer of CO2 in the headspace by now, and as long as I don't shake to the point I get air-bubbles the wrong way on the air-lock be ok? I'm new at this, so I don't actually know, but that makes sense in my head.

Thanks all for the responses thus far.

 

[Dave_K]

I would try just warming it up a bit. You could swirl it around a little to re-suspend the yeast, but I don't think shaking is a good idea.

 

[andy6026]

At what temperature was the reading taken? Temperature effects the reading. Also, these hydrometers aren't always well celebrated.
From your pictures it looks like you had a strong fermentation and no reason to assume a stall.
If you want to play it safe wait a little longer and check the gravity again to see if it drops. Agitation at this point has a high risk of oxidation. Personally, I think you're good to get it bottled

High risk? Wow. And here I thought that with an airlock sealing the carboy there'd be no way for oxygen to get in there at all.

 

[Dave_K]

High risk? Wow. And here I thought that with an airlock sealing the carboy there'd be no way for oxygen to get in there at all.

They were talking about shaking the carboy. I would assume you'd have to replace the air lock with a solid stopper to accomplish that. Thus breaking the seal and allowing some oxygen in.
Would shaking definitely cause oxidation? Maybe not, but why risk it?

 

[alefort]

Judging by the picture in the original post, it looks to me like you misread your hydrometer. Read from the very top of the beer/wort when it meets the hydrometer.

From that picture, it looks like 1.016

 

[ryantollefson]

Judging by the picture in the original post, it looks to me like you misread your hydrometer. Read from the very top of the beer/wort when it meets the hydrometer.

From that picture, it looks like 1.016

Thanks for the feedback & making sure I'm not overlooking something simple. :cross:

I agree, from that pic it does look like 1.016 - it's a funny angle on the camera. In real-life it was pretty clearly 1.018. I gave it several gentle spins/bobs to make sure it wasn't sticking to the sides of the jar, and to ensure there weren't air-bubbles under it.

I measured to the bottom of the meniscus in the jar.

 

[alefort]

Thanks for the feedback & making sure I'm not overlooking something simple. :cross:

I agree, from that pic it does look like 1.016 - it's a funny angle on the camera. In real-life it was pretty clearly 1.018. I gave it several gentle spins/bobs to make sure it wasn't sticking to the sides of the jar, and to ensure there weren't air-bubbles under it.

I measured to the bottom of the meniscus in the jar.

Ryan,

Just to be clear, when reading the gravity, you should be reading from the top of the meniscus, not the bottom as per this wiki article on HBT

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Talk:Hydrometer

 

[andy6026]

They were talking about shaking the carboy. I would assume you'd have to replace the air lock with a solid stopper to accomplish that. Thus breaking the seal and allowing some oxygen in.
Would shaking definitely cause oxidation? Maybe not, but why risk it?

Nobody was talking about putting the carboy in a motorized paint shaker. "Gentle agitation" was the term originally used and then followed up with "a bit of a shake".

Geez, you'd have to be Hercules to shake a full carboy enough to pop off the airlock. Attempting that would cause any sane person more concern over really hurting their back or losing one's grip and end up throwing the carboy, smashing it, losing all the beer and risking cutting oneself.

Yeah, OP, just incase you had the wrong idea -- don't pick up the carboy and shake it in the same way a homicidal parent would shake a crying baby,

 

[ryantollefson]

Ryan,

Just to be clear, when reading the gravity, you should be reading from the top of the meniscus, not the bottom as per this wiki article on HBT

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Talk:Hydrometer

Now that just goes against everything I remember in chemistry class.

Also goes against the following:

Actually Using a Hydrometer

Use of a hydrometer is a pretty simple affair. You typically remove a small amount of sample wort, place it in a clear sample cylinder and then immerse the hydrometer in the liquid. Read the gravity reading from the scale on the hydrometer where it crosses the water-air boundary. There will be a slight curve along the water-air line (called the meniscus), so if you want to be really accurate you should take the reading at the lowest point in that air-water curve (the bottom of the meniscus).
http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/03/18/using-a-hydrometer-for-beer-brewing/

and...
http://www.lovebrewing.co.uk/guides/wine-making/how-to-use-a-hydrometer/#.VGt9nPnF_Tc

Though I suppose if you are always measuring the same way it should be good enough since the change in density is what we are really interested in.

 

[ryantollefson]

Yeah, OP, just incase you had the wrong idea -- don't pick up the carboy and shake it in the same way a homicidal parent would shake a crying baby,

But that always worked great to quiet my little one. :cross:

 

[alefort]

Now that just goes against everything I remember in chemistry class.

Also goes against the following:


and...
http://www.lovebrewing.co.uk/guides/wine-making/how-to-use-a-hydrometer/#.VGt9nPnF_Tc

Though I suppose if you are always measuring the same way it should be good enough since the change in density is what we are really interested in.

I'm confused, internet, you confuse me!

I agree reading that reading from the lowest point was how we were taught in academia. You're right that its a moot point if you measure the same way to find the differential. But it does matter if you're wondering if you've fully attenuated.

I can't find a definitive answer online. Can anyone help?

 

[alefort]

I remember now. The actual hydrometer instructions stated to read from the top. This thread has an image just like my instruction sheet.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/hydrometer-calibration-271747/

WTF

 

[ryantollefson]

But it does matter if you're wondering if you've fully attenuated.

Good point.

I'll need to get some distilled H2O and test with my hydrometer. If nothing else, that will ensure I'm calibrated with my equipment.

 

[alefort]

Good point.

I'll need to get some distilled H2O and test with my hydrometer. If nothing else, that will ensure I'm calibrated with my equipment.

I just did this with tap water @ 60F and the top of the meniscus read very very close to 1.000

 

[Yooper]

I always read at the bottom of the meniscus, as that was the way I was taught.

In any case, this beer is done. It shouldn't be swirled or agitated, etc- it's done. It's nice and clear and ready to package. A FG of 1.016-1.018 is a fine FG for that beer.

 

[jtratcliff]

I agree with Yooper... It's done. Of course, she's usually right so that's an easy one.

Don't extract batches often stop around 1.020 anyway ?