High Gravity Brewing vs Brew Boss vs Another Electric Brewing Setup

[steveoatley]

I always wanted FRP in my brewery.

You can mop the dang walls !
You can Spray them with a hose - as long as you have somewhere for that water to go.

This is one of those stepping over dollars to pick up pennies, kind of things...

Spend the money where you really need it. Saves you headache later one.

S

 

[augiedoggy]

I always wanted FRP in my brewery.

You can mop the dang walls !
You can Spray them with a hose - as long as you have somewhere for that water to go.

This is one of those stepping over dollars to pick up pennies, kind of things...

Spend the money where you really need it. Saves you headache later one.

S

im not sure I agree with the stepping over dollars comment.... I brew in a spare bedroom and rarely have spills that splatter on the walls with my setup unless I do something careless like drop the mixing paddle but even then... I use gloss latex paint on the walls and it cleans right up without any damage or problems. So for me it would just be bling really and not practical but everyones setup and practice is different. my homemade hood seems to do a great job of preventing steam from condensing anywhere which helps im sure.

I would love to have a drain in my floor in case I have spills and to just make cleanup easier but that too is not practical in my setup... I really wish my house had a basement.

 

[steveoatley]

I am brewing in a Basement, below grade
So I am starting off with a "Humid" environment, I have a 400 cu fan yet to install, to take care of that

Last time I brewed "indoors" - back in my Extract days, there was so much moisture in the Kitchen, I had condensation running down the walls !!
We had "fog" in the house.

A big fan, an open back door pushing in 5F air, fan out the front door
In February - it was the last time my wife let me brew in doors.

So, i am not taking any chances with a build up of Moisture in my basement
FRP walls, Epoxy on the floors,, i can give the whole room a light spray and mop to end my day cleaning.....

S

 

[itsnotrequired]

im not sure I agree with the stepping over dollars comment.... I brew in a spare bedroom and rarely have spills that splatter on the walls with my setup unless I do something careless like drop the mixing paddle but even then... I use gloss latex paint on the walls and it cleans right up without any damage or problems. So for me it would just be bling really and not practical but everyones setup and practice is different. my homemade hood seems to do a great job of preventing steam from condensing anywhere which helps im sure.

I would love to have a drain in my floor in case I have spills and to just make cleanup easier but that too is not practical in my setup... I really wish my house had a basement.

i went with frp for aesthetics more than anything else, ease of cleaning is just a bonus. the drywall in front of where i wanted my brew stand was unfinished and pretty beat up. i would have had to patch, tape/mud, sand, repeat and then paint the whole thing. it would have been cheaper than frp but taken a lot longer and a lot more finicky fooling around to get the finish right. it was certainly more expensive than drywall work but i despise drywall work so for me it was a no-brainer.

 

[jeffmeh]

In my previous house I built out a room to house a sump for a reef aquarium. For the walls I used plywood panels and painted with chlorinated rubber paint. Held up great in a humid, salt water environment, and made it very easy to mount components to the walls. The room eventually became my cold side brewery room.

 

[johnsant]

Check out Dave's reply to controller in ScrewyBrewer's post on High Gravity controllers.

 

[steveoatley]

here is the link


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=425681&page=8


Thanks Dave

 

[sendeu]

i don't post often, but this has to be the most off topic thread I've seen in a while. I wish I was as knowledgable about EVERYTHING as some here are!!!

 

[dserbin]

Okay, this will appear strong (and in fact is). I truly mean no disrespect in writing it. I just feel strongly the building of a 240 Volt 30+ amp controller is being miss-portrayed. First, who am I to be able to comment on this:

1) I have a Bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering
2) I have a master's Degree in Electrical Engineering
3) I just recently retired as the Chief Engineer of a large aircraft prototyping organization. I had technical cognizance over engineers, wiring and mechanical artisans, several wiring fabrication shops, two machine shops, aircraft hangars, etc. I was responsible for the technical excellence of over 100 aircraft prototype modifications a year.
4) I have designed power control circuits.
5)I have also seen, unfortunately, what can happen when mistakes are made with these levels of power.

I could go on but I think I have made my point. I am not one who does not "yet understand"... I completely understand what is involved...and here are my thoughts:

1) Someone, without electrical design/fabrication experience, building a control panel for 30+ Amps of 240 volts is dangerous and potentially life threatening.
2) IMHO it is irresponsible for anyone on this board to tell someone with no electrical experience they can safety build a high power electrical control system.
3) In the above post the explanations of "fuses" and/or miss-wired devises just going "poof", and not being a danger, is just ridiculous.
4) Also, the analogy to lighting a grill is nuts and shows the author is one of those folks that "don't yet understand"
5)Be very careful who you take electrical wiring advice from ....especially someone on the internet...remember you have no idea the validity of the info or the credentials of the person portraying themselves as an expert..This note of caution applies to my comments and thoughts also...

OK, here are my credentials:
1) I have a bachelor's degree in chemical engineering
2) I have a law degree
3) I spent 30 years as a patent attorney writing patents relating to chemical equilibria, organic chemistry, thermodynamics, heat transfer and pharmacokinetics
4) All this means precisely dick when it comes to DIY controllers, because I know nuttin about electricity except that V = IR (I think)<GG>

I was going to build one of EBrewSupply's 30a controllers for $335.

http://www.ebrewsupply.com/complete-30a-biab-kit/

I separately priced out all the components at Auber and it was more than what EBrewSupply was charging for the kit. EBrew has what looks like a complete instruction manual which should make it pretty easy if you want to go that route.

BUT, then I saw the Jagger Bush for $290 assembled, so what the heck....I'll go with Jagger Bush....I don't think you can get cheaper than that even with DIY

 

[augiedoggy]

OK, here are my credentials:
1) I have a bachelor's degree in chemical engineering
2) I have a law degree
3) I spent 30 years as a patent attorney writing patents relating to chemical equilibria, organic chemistry, thermodynamics, heat transfer and pharmacokinetics
4) None of the above is relevant to DIY controllers, because I don't know dick about electricity except that V = IR (I think)<GG>

I was going to build one of EBrewSupply's 30a controllers for $335.

http://www.ebrewsupply.com/complete-30a-biab-kit/

I separately priced out all the components at Auber and it was more than what EBrewSupply was charging for the kit. EBrew has what looks like a complete instruction manual which should make it pretty easy if you want to go that route.

BUT, then I saw the Jagger Bush for $290 assembled, so what the heck....I'll go with Jagger Bush....I don't think you can get cheaper than that even with DIY

I build mine with 3 element pid control, timer (all with alarm) and 3 pwm speed controllers for dc pumps plus a float switch for the hlt and flow switch for the rims as safetys for just under $300...So yeah .. Like anything if you buy something sold for generic uses instead of from a specialty middleman store you can usually get the stuff at average online retail prices and save a LOT more... Its no different than buying elmers glue at walmart vs buying the same elmers glue at a craft shop... its no secret the prices could be drastically different... these panels are intimidating to many brewers so some people take advantage of that with ready built and kit prices knowing people will feel more comfortable going that route (its not always the case and I recognize that its just not worth some peoples time)
my build thread is below.
If you learn the basics and use common sense and OR are just really good at following directions you can build your own panel safely. Your accomplishments already show that you are more than capable.
wiring a pid to a relay and SSR is not the rocket science people want to believe it is.. you just have to pay attention to what you are doing and double check your work. Honestly its not much more complex than hooking up some home theater systems.. just a lot of steps and patience required.

Of course this is from the guy with a high school diploma that went to trade school for carpentry and took a job in a totally different field at 19 who worked his way up from delivery driver to field service engineer still doing my job 8 corporate buyouts and 20 years later.. You dont necessarily need any degrees or licenses to learn and it can happen pretty quickly when you actually want to.

 

[dserbin]

I build mine with 3 element pid control, timer (all with alarm) and 3 pwm speed controllers for dc pumps plus a float switch for the hlt and flow switch for the rims as safetys for just under $300...So yeah .. Like anything if you buy something sold for generic uses instead of from a specialty middleman store you can usually get the stuff at average online retail prices and save a LOT more... Its no different than buying elmers glue at walmart vs buying the same elmers glue at a craft shop... its no secret the prices could be drastically different... these panels are intimidating to many brewers so some people take advantage of that with ready built and kit prices knowing people will feel more comfortable going that route (its not always the case and I recognize that its just not worth some peoples time)
my build thread is below.
If you learn the basics and use common sense and OR are just really good at following directions you can build your own panel safely. Your accomplishments already show that you are more than capable.
wiring a pid to a relay and SSR is not the rocket science people want to believe it is.. you just have to pay attention to what you are doing and double check your work. Honestly its not much more complex than hooking up some home theater systems.. just a lot of steps and patience required.

Of course this is from the guy with a high school diploma that went to trade school for carpentry and took a job in a totally different field at 19 who worked his way up from delivery driver to field service engineer still doing my job 8 corporate buyouts and 20 years later.. You dont necessarily need any degrees or licenses to learn and it can happen pretty quickly when you actually want to.

Wow. You did all that for 300 bucks? That's amazing.....couldn't have been Auber components, right?.....the parts list for reproducing the (very basic) 30a BIAB EBrewSupply controller was something like $400.

I had a talk with the EBrewSupply guy.....him and his wife run the show I think.....and I asked him why he used Love controllers rather than Auber.......the Loves are about twice the cost of Auber PIDs ($85 vs $45), yet he still beat the price of Auber for a comparable DIY.....he said he gets discounts for large orders of parts....what I found with Auber is that a lot of the cost was the connectors....over 30 bucks each for a locking inlet or outlet receptacle......that's probably where Auber makes the dough, not the PIDs.

I heard about Jagger Bush from Bobby at http://www.brewhardware.com .....I think Bobby's a great source for homebrew DIY stuff.....and if Bobby likes Jagger Bush, that says something.

I am just going with a simple two vessel system.....a Coleman Extreme 70qt. mash tun with a false bottom (of my own design) and a SSBrewTech 1/2 barrel fermentor doubling as a boil kettle....recirculating between the two like the Blichmann K-Rims system.....one pump.....simple, piece a cake and (relatively) cheap......once the mash is done, do your boil.....I'll use a 5500W Hotrod stick from Brewhardware in the fermentor......after boiling, remove the Hotrod and put the SSBrewtech coil on the top of the ferementor.....recirculate during cooling (thereby increasing the Nusselt number), then set up fermentation temp control with the same coil.....done.......not very efficient, but as Lonny Mac said, and as quoted here many times....this ain&#8217;t a grain race here; it&#8217;s about beer man!

I call it the FUBAR system: Fermentor Used for Boiling And Recirculation

 

[augiedoggy]

Wow. You did all that for 300 bucks? That's amazing.....couldn't have been Auber components, right?.....the parts list for reproducing the (very basic) 30a BIAB EBrewSupply controller was something like $400.

I had a talk with the EBrewSupply guy.....him and his wife run the show I think.....and I asked him why he used Love controllers rather than Auber.......the Loves are about twice the cost of Auber PIDs ($85 vs $45), yet he still beat the price of Auber for a comparable DIY.....he said he gets discounts for large orders of parts....what I found with Auber is that a lot of the cost was the connectors....over 30 bucks each for a locking inlet or outlet receptacle......that's probably where Auber makes the dough, not the PIDs.





I heard about Jagger Bush from Bobby at http://www.brewhardware.com .....I think Bobby's a great source for homebrew DIY stuff.....and if Bobby likes Jagger Bush, that says something.

I am just going with a simple two vessel system.....a Coleman Extreme 70qt. mash tun with a false bottom (of my own design) and a SSBrewTech 1/2 barrel fermentor doubling as a boil kettle....recirculating between the two like the Blichmann K-Rims system.....one pump.....simple, piece a cake and (relatively) cheap......once the mash is done, do your boil.....I'll use a 5500W Hotrod stick from Brewhardware in the fermentor......then put the SSBrewtech coil on the top of the ferementor.....recirculate for cooling, then set up fermentation temp control with the same coil.....done.......not very efficient, but as Lonny Mac said, and as quoted here many times....this ain&#8217;t a grain race here; it&#8217;s about beer man!

I call it the FUBAR system: Fermentor Used for Boiling And Recirculation

Something you should keep in mind about how places like ebrew supply works... They buy stuff online in bulk and mark up the prices.. They sell convienient kits from one source but you pay for it.. for example lets look as the 5500w heating elements he buys in bulk and resells for $42 + shipping a piece...

now lets look at alibaba where he likely buys his elements in bulk..


http://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...62175659.html?spm=a2700.7724838.30.260.wVmlxj

they even have the same manufacturing marks on the element tip... I would like to know how they became UL listed along the way if they are from the same manufactuerer which they appear to be...(maybe ebrew paid for this certification and that goes into the markup?) The Bright blue ended ones he sells are also all over amazon, ebay and alieexpess for much less...
So yeah I would expect it to often cost a lot more going with a home brewing supplier instead of electronics/ electrical suppliers.

I also normally recommend jaggerbush or brumatic due to their very fair pricing... Bobbys markups are very resonable and fair compared to a lot of companies that buy and resell. He also develops a lot of new products...

To be fair Auber must design a lot of thier pids and timers because most are only avalible through them or as chinese brand clones like the $30 XMT-612 which is the same as the popular auber pid model. and aubers panel here is top notch but its fairly expensive for what it is too. auber makes a good markup on thier switches , indicator, ssrs, relays, alarms, heatsinks and temp probes which are from the same generic suppliers as the stuff found elswhere.. They are generally just under twice the price without shipping as these components usually sell with shipping from somewhere else... So the extra $3 per switch and $11 for a $3 heatsink adds up quick. A note about auber though.. They appear to be improving their prices to be more competitive lately on this stuff... and if you dont know how a switch or something works, their support is top notch.. most end up getting support here though.

Buying from places like ebrew and auber is really much like buying your allgrain supplies in recipe "Kits" instead of taking the time to create your own recipes... sure that work is done for you but your going to pay extra for it right? and shopping around for the components instead of buying everything from one source is more comparable to "group buy" pricing vs buying everything at retail from your local HBS.. The difference is pretty big.

love controllers are overkill in my opinion but hey thats just my opinion... if the price is right , great otherwise theres not valid point for our use.. The cheaper options like the auber and mypins are very reliable and work great. Even commercial kitchen appliances like impinger pizza ovens dont use such expensive controllers.


My thread in my sig has more details on my panel build if your interested at all.

 

[BullMoose]

I recently sold my single tier 3V system because I was downsizing so I thought "hey, let's go electric and save money and time!" I waffled back and forth on which system to buy or to build or what but really liked both Brewboss and HG systems. There were positives and negatives for each IMO. In the end, I went with the HG due primarily to cost. I upgraded to the 20 gallon kettle and basket, SS fittings, etc. It came quick and I had zero issues with its assembly and operation.

Now I have 2 batches under me and things have run very smoothly so far. One thing that I didn't account for was lifting the full basket out (35# of wet grain). We almost couldn't get it done so for those who are looking at 10-13 gallon batches, factor in a mechanism to hoist the grains out. And don't use your garage door rail as the anchor point, not a good idea!

 

[tmendick]

I actually went with a hybrid approach, High Gravity everything except for the controller. That honor goes the the Hosehead, wifi PIDs sounded like a fun idea also I can expand a bit easier with the Hosehead if I ever decide to go 3v. All in it was about $50 more than just getting the full High Gravity Setup

 

[PoorBoy]

I just ran my first batch through my HG SBV system weekend before last, and I'm a convert. Holy crap was it amazing.