Hi all!

[guyakaguy]

Hi everyone!

I'm a new brewer that's been lurking on here since I made cider from my own apples a couple months ago. I come from the land of Northern Brewer/Midwest Supplies, but was shocked to find out that both of these places are online only. Apparently this must be a dying fad hobby.

I was going to get into this about 15 years ago, and my ex had bought me a "starter kit", but the kit never got picked up. I had a surplus of apples this year and decided to juice the apples and make cider. An investment of $20 got me a couple 1 gal carboys, stoppers and airlocks, some 1 step, and 6 packets of yeast. I made some pretty good apple cider and didn't have it around long enough to age.

Facebook, creepily from all of the cider research, showed me a "I bought a ton of home brew stuff a few years ago and now I want it gone" listing and I picked it up for next to nothing. I got a kettle with a lid, 2 6.5 pails and a bottling pail with lids, 2 6 gal carboys, thermometer, hydrometer, 2 cases of bottles, bottle caps and capper, auto-siphon, a wine thief, and a couple extract kits that have darkened syrup for a couple Jacksons.

I picked up some yeast from RiteBrew (S-04 and S-33). Brewed on an old 1100w hotplate in the garage with filtered well water. It took longer than expected to boil a 2.5 gallon partial, but it did boil. Boiled the DME, then hops at times intervals, then dumped the LME when I had 15 minutes left of the 60 minute boil. It also seemed to be taking forever to cool, and I was using an ice bath that I added ice to multiple times, but I realized that my thermometer probe was stuck high and I was actually 20 degrees below yeast pitch temp (58f). I warmed about a gallon in the microwave and got it up to 100f, got the bucket up to 70+-f, had the S-04 hydrated and pitched it. The next morning the airlock was bubbling and it has been for 3 days straight.

Lessons learned, so far, are that I'll have to at least get a better cooktop for brewing, I'll need a better thermometer that reads accurately, and I'll need more pails and bottles because I think I'm already addicted and I haven't even finished fermenting yet.

Anyway, I hope that I can get as much advice as I can to be as good as I can at this, within the limitations of my garage and basement, and hopefully can help someone else out eventually.

 

[IslandLizard]

Welcome to homebrewing and our forums!

I'll have to at least get a better cooktop for brewing

If you want to brew indoors, I can recommend using an induction plate.
I've been using an Avantco IC3500 (~$220-240) for over 10 years, never looked back. I only use the propane rig when brewing on location, which has become very rare lately.

Since the IC3500 is 3500W, it requires a 240V 20 Amp circuit. A (30A) "dryer circuit" could be used if nearby.

Also, the kettle needs to be induction ready, of course. If a magnet sticks to the bottom, you're all set.
However, even if a magnet doesn't stick to the bottom, the pot could still be induction capable. There's only one way to find out with those: test it! I have quite a few pots that work A-OK on the induction plate, yet, a magnet won't stick to them.

Furthermore, a thick (triple ply) kettle bottom can help against scorching. So does good scraping the bottom while heating/boiling.

If you're serious about brewing, a good digital thermometer will come in very handy. For 1-2 Hamiltons you can find very decent ones, such as a CDN DTQ450X (Amazon, etc.). I've been using 2 of those for well over 12 years, still going strong.
[EDITS] During brewing I have them mounted on my plate chiller, on both the wort and (chilling) water outlet to monitor the ΔT (delta-T) for best chilling efficiency, especially toward the end.

Or, if you want the luxury of somewhat faster and possibly even more exact temp readings, a Thermapen (link) may be the ticket, although it does demand a Franklin plus a Hamilton. I'm using the Thermapen most of the time, and in hindsight, wished I had splurged on that earlier.

 

[guyakaguy]

Welcome to homebrewing and our forums!


If you want to brew indoors, I can recommend using an induction plate.
I've been using an Avantco IC3500 (~$220-240) for over 10 years, never looked back. I only use the propane rig when brewing on location, which has become very rare lately.

Since the IC3500 is 3500W, it requires a 240V 20 Amp circuit. A (30A) "dryer circuit" could be used if nearby.

Also, the kettle needs to be induction ready, of course. If a magnet sticks to the bottom, you're all set.
However, even if a magnet doesn't stick to the bottom, the pot could still be induction capable. There's only one way to find out with those: test it! I have quite a few pots that work A-OK on the induction plate, yet, a magnet won't stick to them.

Furthermore, a thick (triple ply) kettle bottom can help against scorching. So does good scraping the bottom while heating/boiling.

If you're serious about brewing, a good digital thermometer will come in very handy. For 1-2 Hamiltons you can find very decent ones, such as a CDN DTQ450X (Amazon, etc.). I've been using 2 of those for well over 12 years, still going strong.

Or if you want the luxury of somewhat faster and possibly even more exact temp readings, a Thermapen (link) may be the ticket, although it does demand a Franklin and a Hamilton. I'm using that one most of the time, and wished I had splurged earlier.

I was definitely looking at induction cooktops, and do have 240v outlets and extension cords in my garage, but I was thinking about going with a 120v 1800w induction cooker. It's significantly more powerful than my 1100w "apartment coil" cooker and can serve a dual purpose if we ever remodel the kitchen or our range poops out. I'll save the $250 induction cooktop for when I get a bit more serious, unless they go on sale sometime soon. The pot I have is stainless and is magnetic, so no worries there.

My bar for a thermometer is pretty low. I heated up the probe and it's reading 118f sitting on the floor in my 55f garage after 24 hrs. Even something somewhat accurate is a step up from that piece of junk.

 

[wallyLOZ]

If you're going to stick to 2.5 gallon batches, the 110v unit will do fine. Still slower than gas but, it will work. I've tried my 110v induction cooktop with 5 gallon batches and takes significantly longer to heat, and the lid must be covering most of the pot and achieves a slow roll boil. It worked, but not ideal. YMMV.

 

[wallyLOZ]

BTW, welcome to HBT!

 

[guyakaguy]

Also, the kettle needs to be induction ready, of course. If a magnet sticks to the bottom, you're all set.
However, even if a magnet doesn't stick to the bottom, the pot could still be induction capable. There's only one way to find out with those: test it! I have quite a few pots that work A-OK on the induction plate, yet, a magnet won't stick to them.

I'll have to try a stronger magnet on mine. The pot I have is the standard Northern Brewer 5 gallon stainless steel pot, so nothing special, but none of my regular refrigerator magnets stick to it. Had I been originally making the choice on the pot, I would've gotten something with a sturdier/stronger/thicker base. My biggest complaints about past stock pots is that the bottom was way too thin. Once you know how these things are formed, it makes sense that the bottoms would be paper thin.

 

[guyakaguy]

If you're going to stick to 2.5 gallon batches, the 110v unit will do fine. Still slower than gas but, it will work. I've tried my 110v induction cooktop with 5 gallon batches and takes significantly longer to heat, and the lid must be covering most of the pot and achieves a slow roll boil. It worked, but not ideal. YMMV.

Ideally, I'd keep doing 5 gallon partial boil batches. I'll have to see how the first one turns out first.

My $5 coil hot plate did "fine" for boiling. It took about an hour to go from well temp (45f-ish) to boiling. I can only imagine that what I used is the literal bottom of the barrel, minimum viable option.

 

[IslandLizard]

I was thinking about going with a 120v 1800w induction cooker.

That capacity works fine for 2-3 gallon full (boil) volume batches, or partial boil (extract) batches (with cold water top up in the fermenter).

For 5 gallon full boil or all grain batches, a higher capacity burner (3000-3500W) would be a much better choice.

For example, when brewing 5-5.5 gallon (all grain) batches, my 8 gallon kettle is filled 1.5" (= 1 gallon) below the rim. Heat loss also becomes higher with bigger kettles, unless you wrap insulation around them, and leave the (also insulated) lid on part ways. The triple burner (est. 2000-2500W) in my flat top stove could barely keep 6-7 gallons of wort at a simmer with those (insulation) tricks. That's where the 3500W induction plate came in. I've done 10 gallon batches with it too.

I just checked, Webstaurant.com sells the IC3500 for $170 with free shipping.
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/av...on-range-cooker-208-240v-3500w/177IC3500.html
I guess I'm gonna order (another) backup.

On a side note, when brewing indoors, don't forget to add some good ventilation to blow all that steam to the outdoors. There are several options for that too.

 

[MaxStout]

Welcome, from another MN brewer!

If you opt for the 120V cooktop, you can still do full batches, using a bucket heater to help it along. Be sure to plug each device into a separate circuit.

 

[guyakaguy]

That capacity works fine for 2-3 gallon full (boil) volume batches, or partial boil (extract) batches (with cold water top up in the fermenter).

For 5 gallon full boil or all grain batches, a higher capacity burner (3000-3500W) would be a much better choice.

For example, when brewing 5-5.5 gallon (all grain) batches, my 8 gallon kettle is filled 1.5" (= 1 gallon) below the rim. Heat loss also becomes higher with bigger kettles, unless you wrap insulation around them, and leave the (also insulated) lid on part ways. The triple burner (est. 2000-2500W) in my flat top stove could barely keep 6-7 gallons of wort at a simmer with those (insulation) tricks. That's where the 3500W induction plate came in. I've done 10 gallon batches with it too.

I just checked, Webstaurant.com sells the IC3500 for $170 with free shipping.
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/av...on-range-cooker-208-240v-3500w/177IC3500.html
I guess I'm gonna order (another) backup.

On a side note, when brewing indoors, don't forget to add some good ventilation to blow all that steam to the outdoors. There are several options for that too.

I'll be doing my brewing in a heated garage. A bit of moisture may help increase the "feels like" temp in the garage when the humidity is 20%, but I'll be doing my brewing by a window that I can crack.

 

[guyakaguy]

Welcome, from another MN brewer!

If you opt for the 120V cooktop, you can still do full batches, using a bucket heater to help it along. Be sure to plug each device into a separate circuit.

I think if I was going to keep using the apartment/dorm OG coil hotplate, I'd warm up the water on the house range first next time, but am hoping for some Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals on an induction cooker. If a 240v one comes up, I may have to snatch up that one instead.

It seems like only yesterday (12 years ago) I was browsing through Northern on Grand Ave and having window shopping pipe dreams of brewing my own beer. Now they've gone the way of Bezos-Mart and a homebrew shop in Little Chute, WI (which I went to earlier this summer) seems to be the reigning deal king of the online homebrewing world.

 

[IslandLizard]

There's always the option of an urn-like All-in-One brew system, instead of a multi vessel.
Quite a few brands and models are available in 120V, 240V, and some even in dual voltage.

 

[wallyLOZ]

If you're in the market now, Avantco induction burners are not a bad price. The link is for the 3500w unit.

https://www.therestaurantstore.com/items/775

 

[IslandLizard]

If you're in the market now, Avantco induction burners are not a bad price. The link is for the 3500w unit.

https://www.therestaurantstore.com/items/775

Living near Baltimore, I'm familiar with that place.
The $60 (yearly) membership ruins that deal quickly though, even with free shipping.

I'd stick with the Webstaurant link in (my) post #8.

 

[wallyLOZ]

Living near Baltimore, I'm familiar with that place.
The $60 (yearly) membership ruins that deal quickly though, even with free shipping.

I'd stick with the Webstaurant link in (my) post #8.

Good catch. Didn't see that the price was for members. I bought mine through Webstaurant.

 

[guyakaguy]

There's always the option of an urn-like All-in-One brew system, instead of a multi vessel.
Quite a few brands and models are available in 120V, 240V, and some even in dual voltage.

I saw those too and will definitely be considering, if the price is right. My biggest issue is that they only do one thing. Most of the critical reviews I read about them, in general, were complaining about leaking fittings. Anything that needs to be assembled by the end-user is prone to mis-assembly, especially considering that technical and/or mechanical ability is rare. PTFE thread sealant?

I'm convinced that the majority of critical reviews that aren't products that were DOA aren't explaining actual flaws with the products, but flaws with the operator of the product. I saw several video reviews of induction cookers where people were trying to use their $9 aluminum non-stick pans on them and complaining about it not working. Did you even bother to read the product description or the manual? No? You just threw your mom's old T-Fal on it and decided that it was a piece of junk.

 

[IslandLizard]

My biggest issue is that they only do one thing.

Heating up the content, yes.

But you can heat anything "watery," from plain water to wort, to soup. Even do Sous Vide.
Most have a delayed start timer on them so the AIO can start heating strike or brew water an hour or so before you wake up or are ready to brew.

On National Homebrew Day we often have 2 to 4 of such AIOs running along a variety of other type of (non-electric) brew rigs.

An induction plate is more versatile than an AOI brew kettle, sure, but you do need a (suitable) kettle too.
Aside from brewing related activities, such as making yeast starter wort, sugar syrups, and such, I often use the induction plate for general cooking too, making large batches of soup stock (overnight), soup, wokking, stews, etc.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Welcome to the forum from NY. The beer scene fluctuates, as does the hobby. Locally, two really small breweries are closing, some are expanding and thriving. But one thing I would predict is that as prices climb, and selection becomes limited our hobby will see another resurgence. I wouldn’t guess by how much.

 

[chuckyboomboom]

That capacity works fine for 2-3 gallon full (boil) volume batches, or partial boil (extract) batches (with cold water top up in the fermenter).

For 5 gallon full boil or all grain batches, a higher capacity burner (3000-3500W) would be a much better choice.

For example, when brewing 5-5.5 gallon (all grain) batches, my 8 gallon kettle is filled 1.5" (= 1 gallon) below the rim. Heat loss also becomes higher with bigger kettles, unless you wrap insulation around them, and leave the (also insulated) lid on part ways. The triple burner (est. 2000-2500W) in my flat top stove could barely keep 6-7 gallons of wort at a simmer with those (insulation) tricks. That's where the 3500W induction plate came in. I've done 10 gallon batches with it too.

I just checked, Webstaurant.com sells the IC3500 for $170 with free shipping.
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/av...on-range-cooker-208-240v-3500w/177IC3500.html
I guess I'm gonna order (another) backup.

On a side note, when brewing indoors, don't forget to add some good ventilation to blow all that steam to the outdoors. There are several options for that too.

IslandLizard, What size pot do you use on that model?

 

[IslandLizard]

IslandLizard, What size pot do you use on that model?

I mostly use an older model 8 gallon Heavy Duty Kettle from MoreBeer, which has a tri-clad bottom. [Added] That is an aluminum slab sandwiched between the (inner) kettle bottom and the stainless outer bottom shell.
Works like a charm, and is also used for cereal mashes, decoction mashes, etc. under direct (somewhat reduced) heat with thorough stirring and scraping the bottom. That in tandem with my 54 qt (~13 gallons) Coleman Xtreme cooler mash tun.

I also have a 15 gallon kettle of the same, for 10 gallon batches (or splits) but not used that much anymore, choosing for more variety over volume.

I also have a cheap(er), 8 gallon Polarware kettle with a regular (single ply) bottom that works fine on the induction plate too (although it's non-magnetic). With that one I certainly need to watch out for potential scorching, so the bottom needs more thoroughly scraping with the wooden (cooking) paddle.
That Polarware kettle is also used for making large batches of soup stock and such.

 

[chuckyboomboom]

I mostly use an older model 8 gallon Heavy Duty Kettle from MoreBeer, which has a tri-clad bottom. [Added] That is an aluminum slab sandwiched between the (inner) kettle bottom and the stainless outer bottom shell.
Works like a charm, and is also used for cereal mashes, decoction mashes, etc. under direct (somewhat reduced) heat with thorough stirring and scraping the bottom. That in tandem with my 54 qt (~13 gallons) Coleman Xtreme cooler mash tun.

I also have a 15 gallon kettle of the same, for 10 gallon batches (or splits) but not used that much anymore, choosing for more variety over volume.

I also have a cheap(er), 8 gallon Polarware kettle with a regular (single ply) bottom that works fine on the induction plate too (although it's non-magnetic). With that one I certainly need to watch out for potential scorching, so the bottom needs more thoroughly scraping with the wooden (cooking) paddle.
That Polarware kettle is also used for making large batches of soup stock and such.

IslandLizard, Thanks for that reply. Not to hijack the thread, but I am looking into using a 3500w induction cooker with a Blichmann 10g kettle. Just wondering if the kettle is too large for the induction surface. Also wondering about how accurate is temperature management using this type of setup. I notice Advantco has the same model with a probe.

 

[IslandLizard]

IslandLizard, Thanks for that reply. Not to hijack the thread, but I am looking into using a 3500w induction cooker with a Blichmann 10g kettle. Just wondering if the kettle is too large for the induction surface. Also wondering about how accurate is temperature management using this type of setup. I notice Advantco has the same model with a probe.

No, you're not hijacking anything, it's very on-topic when talking about induction plates.

The diameter of the bottom of the kettle is not all that relevant. The induction coil is mounted about 1/4" underneath the glass plate. The area of the kettle that gets heated is about a 6" diameter "disc" shape in the bottom of the kettle. That's where all the heat is being generated and successively transported to the content and the rest of the kettle by conduction and convection. That's why a thick or triple ply bottom helps disperse the heat and most importantly reduces scorching.

Temp management is quite rudimentary, much relying on previous experience.
When heating water to strike temp, or wort to a boil, you typically run at full power (3500W).
When boiling (simmering) a kettle full of wort, power is reduced, to 1800-2500W, depending on heat loss and such.
Similar practice when whirlpooling at reduced temps, 180-130F. You'd add a little heat (low power) to compensate for heat loss elsewhere in the system.

The model with the probe is fairly new. I have no experience with it, but it could help keeping temps in the intended range, automatically. As long as the probe cord is long enough.

 

[chuckyboomboom]

No, you're not hijacking anything, it's very on-topic when talking about induction plates.

The diameter of the bottom of the kettle is not all that relevant. The induction coil is mounted about 1/4" underneath the glass plate. The area of the kettle that gets heated is about a 6" diameter "disc" shape in the bottom of the kettle. That's where all the heat is being generated and successively transported to the content and the rest of the kettle by conduction and convection. That's why a thick or triple ply bottom helps disperse the heat and most importantly reduces scorching.

Temp management is quite rudimentary, much relying on previous experience.
When heating water to strike temp, or wort to a boil, you typically run at full power (3500W).
When boiling (simmering) a kettle full of wort, power is reduced, to 1800-2500W, depending on heat loss and such.
Similar practice when whirlpooling at reduced temps, 180-130F. You'd add a little heat (low power) to compensate for heat loss elsewhere in the system.

The model with the probe is fairly new. I have no experience with it, but it could help keeping temps in the intended range, automatically. As long as the probe cord is long enough.

Thanks, good info