Helping WLP002 attenuate?

[p_p]

Hi I'd like to brew a clone of a beer I like, Fullers 1845. Fortunately this beer featured in a can you brew it episode, where the brewer spoke of the recipe and process in detail.

With OG 1.063, FG 1.014 and WLP002, I fear I will not achieve that level of attenuation.

Beyond mashing low, pitching healthy yeas and perhaps replacing a bit of the malt with simple sugars, is there any other trick I could use?

Threads in this forum point to 68-72% attenuation in a good day... But, 77%, mmm.

In the episode they call the beer cloned, but did not mention the FG they got.
I believe the recipe is 80 pale, 10 low colour crystal and 10 Amber.

Thanks

 

[jodell]

You could always add I higher attenuating yeast at about 75% through fermentation.
According to Chris white in his book Yeast, flavor sets in in the first 30ish% of fermentation. He recommends adding more yeast after that to improve attenuation, flocculation, or whatever else you are trying to achieve.
I did this with an iPa recently. Fermented with wlp008, however that is a low flocculation strain, so at 1.022ish I pitched us-05 and it cleared up nicely

 

[cladinshadows]

In my experience WLP002 responds quite well to rousing. As soon as activity starts to slow ramp your temp up to 70 or so and gently stir the fermenter to help keep the yeast in suspension. You can either swirl the carboy or, if you use a thermowell, simply stir the wort using the thermowell until much of the yeast cake is back up in the wort. Doing this a couple times a day at the end of the ferment can improve attenuation noticeably.

 

[rkzi]

Some people have found it to not reach full attenuation during primary and then finishing in bottles, resulting in gushing. Check this thread for tips on preventing this. IIRC, one user reported drop of 5 points from adding sugar or nutrient after main fermentation. I haven't used this yeast yet myself, but thought that the link would be helpful.

 

[Weezy]

002 will flock out if you walk by the fermenter and look at it funny!

Mash low and use a fermentation chamber that will slowly increase temps over time. Riding ain't a bad idea either.

I wanted to try open fermenting with some British strains in a vessel that has a really low height to weight ratio. I'm that might help as well.

 

[MyQuL]

You could always buy a bottle of 1845 and culture the yeast up. I've read the original Fullers strain is higher attenuating than WLP002.

 

[jerbrew]

You can use wlp007. Great character and much better attenuation than 002. Less temperamental it seems too. Probably my favorite "versatile" strain to use.

 

[p_p]

Thank you for your replies. I'll give it a go

 

[Queequeg]

You just need to aggressively ramp the temp (after day 2). Swirling as suggested above it optional. if it stalls you can always add some 007 but to be honest providing you ramp soon enough you wont get this issue.

Edit; I would pitch at 65F and ferment for first 2 days, then ramp to 68 by the end of day 3, then ramp to 71 by the end of day 4.

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

I always end up kicking up the yeast (blast c02 into the dip tube on my fermenter) since 1968 drops like a brick and leaves all sorts of buttery goodness behind.

 

[p_p]

Thanks for all the info.
I don't think I will be able rouse the yeast, so I will opt for a long mash a low temp, get some of the point from simple sugars and ramp up as sugested.

It is interesting that the brewer actually recommends pitching at 17C letting rise to 20C and then rump down to 18C when the beer reaches full gravity.

I believe the guy that cloned the beer follow that exact profile using 002 ... Makes me wonder.

 

[Queequeg]

Back pressure is another fact. Not sure 002 is back pressure sensitive but many saison strains are that see the same problem. Solution: switch the airlock to a filter similar to those in an O2 wand set up or periodically relieve the pressure in the fermenter.

 

[jekeane]

I use 002 a fair amount and I pitch at 66° set my chamber to 68° and let it rise by itself and stay there a day and a half to 2 days depending on OG then let it rise to 70°. Krausen often drops day 4 and right in the area I want it to.

 

[p_p]

I use 002 a fair amount and I pitch at 66° set my chamber to 68° and let it rise by itself and stay there a day and a half to 2 days depending on OG then let it rise to 70°. Krausen often drops day 4 and right in the area I want it to.

What level of attenuation you usually get?

 

[laredo7mm]

I made a Barleywine a while back and I used WLP002. I think I did a 4 liter starter on it. OG was 1.100 and FG was 1.024 so about 74% attenuation. It fermented at 68° and took about a week to ferment even though I left it in primary for a couple weeks before transferring it to bulk aging.

 

[trav77]

I use 002 a fair amount and I pitch at 66° set my chamber to 68° and let it rise by itself and stay there a day and a half to 2 days depending on OG then let it rise to 70°. Krausen often drops day 4 and right in the area I want it to.

I often do this sort of fermentation schedule with various beers. Just finished a 1.048 pale ale with WLP002 where I used essentially the above technique, although ramped even higher to 72/73 after day 3. By this point it had dropped from 1.048 to 1.020. Another 2 days and it was done at 1.013 for 73% attenuation which is at the top end of the advertised WLP002 range. Mash was 152 F with 93% ESB malt, 7% crystal malts.

If you want to push a yeast beyond its stated attenuation range, use some kettle sugar and/or mash lower.

 

[trav77]

Just found the recipe (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=205873).

They recommend a 148 F mash which will definitely help get greater attenuation. No kettle sugar in the recipe.

 

[rkzi]

Thanks for all the info.
I don't think I will be able rouse the yeast, so I will opt for a long mash a low temp, get some of the point from simple sugars and ramp up as sugested.

It is interesting that the brewer actually recommends pitching at 17C letting rise to 20C and then rump down to 18C when the beer reaches full gravity.

I believe the guy that cloned the beer follow that exact profile using 002 ... Makes me wonder.

Rousing can be as simple as swirling the fermenting vessel to disturb the yeast sediment without splashing. Alternatively you can use a spoon to break it. Some english yeasts might benefit from a second aeration about 6-12 h into fermentation. I've also seen quite detailed instructions for handling a Ringwood fermentation, where the krausen and yeast sediment were broken in a specific way on each day of fermentation.

That fermentation schedule reminded me of this long thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=221817
It's believed to be the Fuller's temp schedule and supposed to not clean the beer too much from yeast-derived flavors.

 

[jekeane]

What level of attenuation you usually get?

Right in their given window 70-72% for thee beers I've looked at. Mostly ordinary and standard bitters. I did have a yeast cake of 002 from a bitter give me 74% on a 1.100 English barleywine that was with extra O2 added sometime in the first 12 hours.

 

[p_p]

Thanks again everybody for your advice.
I wanted to follow up and post my results now that the beer has been bottled.

I mashed very low at 63.5 c for 90 min and added simple sugars to the kettle, around 4.5% of the total points were from simple sugars.

I pitched low, at 16c an abundant amount of yeast and let it rise on its own, capped at 20 until about the 3/4 of the points were gone at which point I helped by slowly ramping up to 21.5.

This gave me an apparent attenuation of 79% which is above what I expected but welcome. OG 1.059 FG 1.011.

I will definitely use this yeast again but next time I will keep it cooler as I don't believe that the yeast would otherwise dropped early.

I have heard that keeping the temperature more in line will result in a more complex malt profile with this yeast, so looking forward to try again.

Cheers