Help with spicy, piney wheat ale

[Chorce]

I'm new to this site and new to home brewing (sorry if my questions are dumb ). I've only just finished bottling my first home brew from a Midwest Supplies kit, but I want to get creative and make a beer for the holidays. My plan is below. Please give me any feedback you may have especially if something seems way out of whack...

Description:
A spicy wheat beer with clove/orange notes and a strong pine aroma

Extract Recipe
60 minute boil
Recipe Volume = 5 gallons
Boil Volume = 3 gallons
Est OG = 1.048
Est FG = 1.0132
Est ABV = 4.56%
Est IBU = 27.87

Malt:
Briess Bavarian Wheat - 6 lbs. DME

Steeping Grains:
60 minutes at 155 degrees
Rye Malt - 12 oz.
Wheat Malt - 6 oz.
Flaked Rye - 6 oz.

Hops:
1/2 oz. Chinook - 30 minutes - 12%AA - 12.17 IBU
1/2 oz. Simcoe - 15 minutes - 13%AA - 8.51 IBU
1/2 oz. Chinook - 10 minutes - 12%AA - 5.74 IBU
1/2 oz. Simcoe - 2 minutes - 13%AA - 1.45 IBU
Total IBU = 27.87

Other Additions:
6 whole cloves added to steeping grain bag
1/2 oz. Bitter Orange Peel at 5 min left in boil

Yeast:
2 vials of White Labs 410 + Yeast nutrient

Fermentation:
2 weeks in Primary, then straight to bottling.

Please give me any feedback you have, also I have some specific questions:
1. Is it too hoppy? I don't think wheat beers are usually hoppy, but I really want a nice pine aroma.
2. Should I consider dry hopping in the second week of fermentation to keep the aroma but reduce the IBUs?
3. Is the addition of clove okay or should I just depend on the yeast's clove notes?
4. Does the amount of bitter orange look low or high? Should I consider sweet orange? I want a noticebale orange note, but not overpowering.

Thanks.

 

[BrewinBigD]

Be really careful with the cloves. I used them in conjuction with cinnamon, nutmeg and ginger in my pumpkin ale and the cloves overpowered everyflavor including the hops. They gave a burnt plastic kinda flavor to the beer. Id say skip the cloves personally.. wth that much hops you may never even notice them if you put them in either. Youll have a good beer im sure though! Cheers!

Sent from my MB502 using Home Brew Talk

 

[Chorce]

Yeah, I don't want the plasticy clove taste. I wonder if dry-hopping the cloves would be better.

I'm also thinking I need to add some apple flavor. With the spices, I'd be going for somewhat of a hint of wassail in this beer. At the same I don't want to go overboard and add too much stuff.

 

[BrewinBigD]

Id one type of flavor profile. Either a fruity wheat or a piney hopster IMO. You can acheive the clove flavor you use the correct yeast at the right temps. Im no veteran, in fact i started brewing on july 4th with extract and tomorrow ill be doing my 10th batch which is also my first AG beer, but i learned on a couple brews that you risk flavoring your beer to the point that it becomes over powering, or in some cases obnoxious. This happened with a chamomile lavender wheat i brewed. Its good, but only for a few sips before youre all set with it. Trial and error is the way to go man, its a learning curve and everyones palates are different, just tellin ya my story! Let me know what you decide on though and maybe ill take a stab at it too!

Sent from my MB502 using Home Brew Talk

 

[Chorce]

Bottled this today.

I used pretty much the recipe outlined above, but with these changes:

• 1 stick of cinnamon and 5 cloves steeped added at last 5min of boil
• 0.5oz of bitter orange AND sweet orange at last 5 min of boil
• added secondary stage to dry hop 0.5oz of Simcoe and 0.5oz of Chinook

At bottling, The final OG was spot on and the smell was delicious though not super-piney. It tasted surprisingly well-balanced but my sample was room temp and uncarbonated. I don't know how that will change.

So far, I'd say it smells and taste like a wheat IPA with some mild orange notes and some spice. I can't wait to check this out after carbing. I think this may be my first beer that I am proud of.

Of course, that's if the Simcoe Cat Pee smell doesn't take over.

 

[Chorce]

Just to follow up, this beer ended up absolutely delicious. The aroma is a strong hoppy/piney scent like a piney IPA, but the actual bitteness is relatively mild. Instead there is a nice complex orange hefe kind of taste with a clean finish.

The spice notes (clove and cinnamon) are very hard to detect. Next time I may increase their time in boil or switch to WLP 400 which is more phenolic. Or I may skip them entirely...they're not really needed here.

This beer is a winner...literally. I took first in a friendly competition among a few fellow brewers.