Help with my first Saison

[Darth_Malt]

I want to try my hand at my first Belgian style beer, and decided to go with a Saison to have ready for summer. I want to keep it somewhat basic. Nothing too crazy in the grain bill, and no more than 2 types of hops.

So far I've decided on mostly Pilsner 2-row with about 20-25% Wheat Malt. I've seen a lot of recipes calling for Munich, some for Caramel/Crystal malts, Aromatic, Biscuit, Acid Malt, the possibilities seem endless. I'm leaning toward just using some Munich for more malt character and calling it good, but would appreciate any advice from the more experienced brewers.

As far as the hops go, I'm thinking sticking with a couple Noble hops would give me a nice subtle flavor/aroma without overshadowing the malts and, more importantly, the yeast characteristics. Looking for some input on what hops would work well together since I don't have any experience with German hops.

For Yeast, I'm thinking White Labs Belgian Saison (1 or 2 depending on what the LHBS has available, or both if I decide to split into two 2.5 gal batches).

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/advice

 

[Hopinista]

What I find most important is to keep it simple and let yeast shine. Ferment at higher temps and keep the grain bill/hopping simple. And I like strisselspalts for saisons, subtle but complimentary

 

[chickypad]

I highly recommend wyeast 3711 for a saison. I undestand that WL565/3724 tends to get stuck, you won't have that problem with 3711 it's a beast. The grainbill sounds good to me, although I do usually include a little simple sugar. The one I currently have on tap was hopped with styrian bobek and saaz.

 

[FB12]

I highly recommend wyeast 3711 for a saison. I undestand that WL565/3724 tends to get stuck, you won't have that problem with 3711 it's a beast. The grainbill sounds good to me, although I do usually include a little simple sugar. The one I currently have on tap was hopped with styrian bobek and saaz.

If I may sneak in a quick question please, what ferm. temps do you recommend for the 3711? I'll be using that one this weekend. Thanks!

 

[chickypad]

I know lots of folks like to ferment their Belgians really warm, especially saisons, but I've had issues in the past with fusels and bandaid type phenolics doing that with a couple strains. The nice thing about 3711 is you don't need really high temps for it to perform, I ferment it around 71*. At that temp I get nice esters and spicy-type phenols without any nasty flavors.

 

[finsfan]

I would highly recommend using the recipe below. I just made it and it has gotten great reviews using 3726. I would also suggest using Millenium @ 60 mins enough for about 25 ibus is plenty. Here is the secret, Motueka for the late hops @ 10 minutes.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/shipwrecked-saison-439724/

 

[WissaBrewGuy]

I am a big fan of the White Labs American Farmhouse blend. Its got a little brett in it and a great belgian saison yeast. By far the best Saison I brewed was with this strain. Also I am a fan of saaz and sorachi ace for hops. Nice grain bill though. As far as temp goes, start low and let it rise high naturally and ferment around 80-90F after the first day or two. Starting the beer cold should reduce bad alcohol byproducts. Good luck! I think you will find that this style will quickly become your favorite. I know it is mine!

 

[Darth_Malt]

So many yeast strains to choose from! I'm seeing a LOT of people recommending 3711 on other threads, for various reasons. I've only used White Labs yeast so far and have had great luck with it so far.
I'm not really concerned about having to ferment at high temps. My roommate has an indoor grow room setup that's usually in the mid 80's and I bet his plants would love the CO2 coming out of the airlock. I would actually prefer a yeast that wants to ferment warm so I can get some real good flavor/aroma contributions from it.
Keep the input flowing, I've got a week or so until I get to brew again.

 

[Darth_Malt]

So here's an update and a couple more questions. I've sort of settled on a recipe, but as always, am still open to suggestions. Sticking to my standard 5.5 Gallon batch...

9lbs Pilsner
3lbs Wheat Malt
.5lb Munich

1oz Perle @60
1oz Strisslespalt @10

3711 Yeast

I'm wondering about 2 things yet, Yeast Starters and Spices. First, I haven't gotten a stir plate yet, and am concerned about not being able to rock a good healthy yeast starter for this brew. Will I be ok just pitching the 3711 without a starter? Second, how important is adding spices? I see a LOT of saisons with Coriander, and a few with things like pepper and grains of paradise. I'm kind of thinking about going with .5-1oz of Coriander and/or Black Pepper just for some extra complexity.

 

[chickypad]

I always do a starter even for a low-ish gravity beer to ensure the yeast is healthy, don't know your efficiency but this doesn't look that low gravity. You can do intermittent shaking if you don't have a stir plate. Other folks may intentionally underpitch Belgians to stress the yeast and bring out the esters but I don't like that idea.

As far as spices it's all personal preference. I tend to prefer unspiced beers and let the yeast shine, but maybe because it's easy to over do it and some versions I've had are pretty heavy-handed. You could always brew it first without then compare next time.

 

[sablesurfer]

Spices is something Americans seem to have done with their Belgian beers. There are 'some' standard Belgian's that have spices added, but the rule of thumb for traditional is that you shouldn't be able to pick out the spices, they are just depth to the yeast and grains.

American styles really go for the 'i can taste the corriander', but that is same as American hopping styles.

I always start an experiment with a base beer, nothing added. Then next time around I know better what will fit and won't wouldn't. If you wouldn't drink the base beer alone, then why brew it?

 

[finsfan]

The ship wrecked saison I did had no coriander or other spices added. Pick the right grist/yeast and you wont need any. Maybe try it without the first time and you can always try it again with spices.

 

[Darth_Malt]

@Chickypad By 'Intermittent shaking' do you mean I'd still make a little mini wort w/ some DME and pitch my yeast in that? Then just give it a good shake once in a while to replace the action of the stir plate? How long should I give it before pitching?

 

[chickypad]

@Chickypad By 'Intermittent shaking' do you mean I'd still make a little mini wort w/ some DME and pitch my yeast in that? Then just give it a good shake once in a while to replace the action of the stir plate? How long should I give it before pitching?

Yes, you give it a good shake as often as you can. This page on Jamil's mrmalty site discusses it. You don't get as much growth as with a stir plate, on the mrmalty yeast calculator and yeastcalculator.com there are options to calculate what size you need for simple starter with no agitation, intermittent shaking, etc.