Help (with headspace)

[countryboy45683]

How full should a 5 gallon carboy be with unpaturized cider, and 2 lbs of brown sugar. Champagne yeast.... Mixed it up a couple days ago and now questioning if I left too much air space in there...

 

[Smogre]

I would not be worrying about headspace during the primary fermentation.

Then again, if I'm using a 5 gallon carboy for a primary, it would be full to the very top "ring" on a glass carboy.
I normally do primaries in a 6.5.

 

[countryboy45683]

Now which ring are u talking about? before the starts to go smooth and neck up?

Like these below?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=130713&l=f5b92eb57a&id=1851127476

 

[CvilleKevin]

I fill mine a little higher than the ones in the pic. See p15 of the sticky - the ones on the right. Its somewhat dependent on the yeast/juice/sugar mix as to how much krausen gets produced. I would err on filling them on the high side and use a blowoff tube if you need it.

 

[Smogre]

Now which ring are u talking about? before the starts to go smooth and neck up?

Like these below?
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=130713&l=f5b92eb57a&id=1851127476

These look fine to me. What is that purple stuff beneath the stoppers?
I use blow off tubes for all primaries.

 

[countryboy45683]

Well those are sterile rubbler gloves. I only had rubber stoppers with the holes in them for the airlocks. And I wanted to put them on their side to roll them. To mix the sugar. So we put the gloves in there to help seal so i wouldnt have cider all over the carpet. Then removed them resterlized the stoppers and put airlocks in. Kinda redneck but it worked. I love the apple smell in in the house now.

 

[Smogre]

Well those are sterile rubbler gloves. I only had rubber stoppers with the holes in them for the airlocks. And I wanted to put them on their side to roll them. To mix the sugar. So we put the gloves in there to help seal so i wouldnt have cider all over the carpet. Then removed them resterlized the stoppers and put airlocks in. Kinda redneck but it worked. I love the apple smell in in the house now.

Gotcha.

I'm not sure on your source of juice but I get mine from the store in 1 gallon jugs. I'll empty half a jug of juice and then fill it up with the sugar and shake it before adding it to the carboy.

CVilleKevin,
That is some serious cider Pron!

 

[countryboy45683]

Ahh will have to try that next time. Someone on here suggested the rolling thing. The entire process was funny as my buddy and I were over tired. We had just got back from the longest business meeting ever at the fire house. We werent done with the cider till about 1 am and I had to be up for work at 5

 

[TipsyDragon]

dont worry about the air in the head space of a primary. the yeast are filling that with CO2. the CO2 is heavier than air and is sitting on top of your must protecting it nicely. any air that is left is floating on top of the CO2 and is quickly being pushed out the airlock.

now when you rack to a secondary. typically you shouldn't worry to much. there is plenty of CO2 dissolved in the cider and will be released when your rack. again this will sit on top of the cider and protect it.

if your still worried you can try this. buy a small piece of dry ice (1lb or less). break off a small chunk and drop it in a glass of warm water. pour the fog and only the fog into the secondary. this fog is CO2 and water vapor. once you think you got enough CO2 in your carboy (very slight fog) start racking. keep pouring the fog till they siphon has stopped. then put a stopper and airlock in it as normal. you may need to dump the water and add new warm water to keep the CO2 flowing.

do not drop the dry ice directly into the cider. dry ice is -119F and will kill allot of the yeast and seriously piss off the rest. not to mention that the CO2 will dissolve in the cider lowering its PH which will piss off the yeast and will affect the taste of the final product.

 

[Smogre]

Rolling glass around would make me nervous.

I use straps for my glass and get a nice little swirl going by rocking it back and forth. Also, if you make sure to do the half gallon shake thing, do that first. All subsequent juices added will simply mix up with the sugar versus adding the sugars last.

 

[CvilleKevin]

I always roll my carboys to get the sugar or honey to dissolve, but I get them filled at the press and then add the sugar. Shaking a full carboy enough to dissolve sugar is a lot of work. If you are getting gallons, yeah it would probably be just as easy to add a couple of gallons, then the sugar/honey and shake to dissolve before topping off with the rest of the juice. I wouldnt worry about rolling glass tho, as long as you are doing it on wood or vinyl floor. I probably wouldnt do it on concrete or tile.

Headspace is no problem when you have an active ferment going, but when its just sitting after racking to secondary, I blow some CO2 on the top to prevent oxidation. For a natural yeast fermentation, which often takes several days to get going, I'll blow CO2 on the primary to fill the headspace until the yeast takes off.

 

[countryboy45683]

I only have 2 carboys so I was thinking about just doing a primary and letting it age in the bottles.

 

[CvilleKevin]

Its better if you can let them stablize for at least a week in a secondary if you can. Often the cider goes through an additional sediment drop once it comes off the primary yeast cake. You dont want that in your bottles. Also you want to make sure the ferment is really stopped.

 

[countryboy45683]

Now I dont have any extra carboys can I siphon it out into a big sterile pot then sterilize the original carboy then pour it back in? i ordered a hydrometer to check things dont know how to use it but im sure i will figure it out. I guess I need a beaker or something to pour the sample in right?

 

[CvilleKevin]

I guess a pot would work, but you can never have too many extra carboys.

The best thing for checking sg in a carboy is a fermatech thief. You put your hydrometer inside and the whole thing drops into the carboy. Saves a lot on cleaning. Or they make test tubes that are sized for the hydros

 

[countryboy45683]

CvilleKevin- thanks I ordered one of those theif's. Thanks for all your help. Im sure I will have a few more questions once i get the hydrometer and such also gotta figure out how to bottle and such.

 

[staggerlee]

do not drop the dry ice directly into the cider. dry ice is -119F and will kill allot of the yeast and seriously piss off the rest. not to mention that the CO2 will dissolve in the cider lowering its PH which will piss off the yeast and will affect the taste of the final product.

Might be a dumb question (not to mention ) but the closest I've been to dry ice is watching a rock show with "smoke" effects... Could you carb a cider using dry ice as your source of CO2?

EDIT: Done some research, and looks DANGEROUS at best. Nevermind.