Help with/critique a Black IPA Extract recipe??

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SloTimes

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Hey guys,

I'm new to making my own recipes and was wondering if you could help me out with my Black IPA recipe. Any critique would be greatly appreciated!

Amt
Name
7 lbs
Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)
1 lbs
Amber Liquid Extract (12.5 SRM)
12.0 oz
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
12.0 oz
Carafa III (525.0 SRM)
1.00 oz
Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz
Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min
1.00 oz
Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz
Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min
0.50 oz
Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
0.50 oz
Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
1.00 Items
Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)
1.00 tsp
Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days)
1.0 pkg
California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml]

BeerSmith says it should have a 1.070 OG, 60 IBUs, 32 SRM, and 7.2% ABV.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!
 
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SloTimes

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Thanks for the input!

I checked out the percentage and it worked out to 7.9% which, thanks to your thread, make me think it might be a little high. So maybe I should drop the Carafa III down to 8oz and maybe add some CaraPils for head retention?? (which would put the Carafa at 5%)

Another thing I'm unsure about is the Hop Additions. Will dry hopping Amarillo Gold on top of Centennial and Chinook blend right? Ive heard some positive responses about dry hopping Amarillo Gold in IPAs but I've never used it.
 

remman4

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I can get my exact recipe once I am at my home computer, but that does seem like a lot of Carafa III

I used Carafa III, chocolate malt, roasted barley, 60L crystal, and another grain in mine

I did 1 oz nugget and .75 oz home grown magnum for 60 min, and then my hop additions were similar to yours for the 30, 15, 5, and flame out

It turned out great! I'll try to post the official recipe this evening
 
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SloTimes

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Thanks I'd like to have something to compare to here.

I was thinking about trying to avoid the heavy roasted coffee flavor from the roasted barley, but how did you like it in yours?

I'm getting really excited for this! Now i just need to clear out space in my ferm chamber haha
 

remman4

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OK so here goes:
Steeped at ~155F for 30 mins in 2.5 gallons water
0.5 lb British Black Patent
0.5 lb Carafa III
1 lb 60L Crystal
0.5 lb 90L Crystal
0.5 lb Roasted Barley

2 lbs Dark DME 60 min boil
1 lb Amber DME at flameout
8 lbs Canadian two row LME at flameout

1.5 oz 13.9% AA Nugget 60 min
1 oz 17.4% AA Milennium 60 min
1 oz 13.1% AA Magnum 30 min (estimated AA due to being home grown!)
1 oz 6.6% AA Cascade 20 min
0.5 oz 6.6% AA Cascade at flameout
1 oz 6.6% Cascade dry hop 10 days
Final batch size 5.67 gallons
OG (est) 1.084 FG (est) 1.021
ABV: 8.1%
Color: 42 deg Lovibond
IBU 100+

It is dark and chocolatey with mild coffee undertones that are quickly balanced with a nice hop bitterness. The head is thick light tan and retention is outstanding!
It is a nicely balanced beer, but next time I think I will up the flameout hops additions to get more hop aroma

It has been a huge hit with my friends!
 

RunnerDude

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Remman4,


That looks tasty. I might try that one. What yeast did you use? Any ale yeast ok?

Thanks,
Jay
 

RunnerDude

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Thanks.

I had to buy ingredients yesterday for a Sunday brew day. They recommended Safale US05 (guess great minds think alike?). Anyway, they only gave me one. Do you think two is necessary given the gravity? They said one Safale or two liquid or one liquid given at least 24 hours in a starter. I opted for the Safale.

I also had to switch up a few things as they didn't have exactly what I wanted. I went chocolate malt since they were out of black patent and dialed the hops back a bit since it won't be as roasted/burnt without the black patent. Also did 1.25 of 50-60L and .25 120L on the crystal since that's what they had. We'll see how it turns out.

Thanks for the recipe.
 

remman4

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Two was borderline overkill so you should be fine, I am curious to hear how the modifications come out. I bought the ingredients yesterday with slight hop schedule changes and can't wait to brew!
 

RunnerDude

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Cool, thanks. I'll let you know how it comes out. Gonna brew this afternoon.

Happy brewing!
 

remman4

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so how did it turn out?


I am brewing this recipe again Saturday, but changing the hops around this time
 

RunnerDude

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Well, the schedule got a bit messed up. Being only my second brew I hadn't thought to schedule out racking, bottling, etc. from when brew day was. And of course racking to secondary was supposed to happen when we were gone. So it ended up in primary for almost 2.5 weeks, then I racked it to secondary and dry hopped it for about 10 days or so (I'd have to look at the notes). Long story short I just bottled it on Wed. Out of primary it wasn't very good at tall. Quite bitter but with very little flavor. Tasted like the stout I made but WAY overhopped. Then after dry-hopping in secondary it was pretty good. Still quite hoppy but with some more nice aromatic hops and hoppy flavor as opposed to just bitter. And it was a bit sweet. Not super roasted (chocolate malt vs. black patent I would assume). I am desperate to try a bottle but I think I'll make myself wait at least a week and then try one of the "sediment" bottles (that's how I always label the last few that get the extra gunk. I'll try to remember to let you know in a few days how it's coming along. And then in a few weeks when it's really ready I'll give another update. But I think it's too early to say if the modifications helped or hurt the brew.
 

RunnerDude

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so how did it turn out?
Well, I was getting antsy anyway and then you went and reminded me of it. :)

So, I cracked one open tonight. It was pretty good, especially for being so young. It lacks balance and the other flavors don't come through very well over the hops. But I'm hoping it will even out over time. I liked the hop character. It was plenty bitter for me (though I've had more bitter). I think the dry hopping saved this beer. It was lousy after primary and the dry hopped character is by far the most distinct flavor. The "blackness" doesn't come through a lot, though I imagine that has a lot to do with using chocolate malt instead of black patent. It has a sweetness, which I like. And then a character that's hard to describe. Almost a sour taste. My only other beer, a stout had this too, so I suspect it has something to do with my methods more than the recipe. Perhaps it's even from my first beer as the fermenter still had an odor.

Here's the hop schedule I ended up using (less and different hops):

1 oz Nugget at 60
1 oz Summit at 60
1 oz Magnum at 30
.5 oz Chinook at 10
.5 oz Chinook at flameout
1 oz Cascade dry hopped

This is only my second brew, so I can't say if the changes were good or bad, but I tried to tell you what it tastes like and let you decide. For me, this is plenty of hops. I like hoppy beers, but I'm not a hophead. So, maybe you'd prefer more and maybe the black patent justifies more hops to balance it out. If I did it again I'd stick to something similar to the above hop schedule.

Hope that's helpful. I'll let you know how it is in another 2 weeks and I'd be curious to hear what modifications you make and how it turns out.
 

chrisinpgh

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fellow brewers of the juice of the gods...after almost a year of brewing with great success..i am about to venture into the unknown by creating a smoky double black ipa for the first time..my question is this: I have seen many recipes with various methods and I cant get my head in the right direction with adding dme or lme to the wort..for this type of brew..should I add this at the start or end of the boil and why.
Much appreciated!
 

treznor

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To the best of my knowledge LME and DME are fairly exchangeable (after taking into account that DME is more potent per pound than LME)... if you can't get fresh LME use DME. If you wait until flameout (or a few minutes before) to add the rest of your extract you'll decrease the gravity of your boil, which increases hop utilization. Higher hop utilization = hopier beer, which is something you're looking for in an IPA :)
 

RunnerDude

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If you wait until flameout (or a few minutes before) to add the rest of your extract you'll decrease the gravity of your boil, which increases hop utilization. Higher hop utilization = hopier beer, which is something you're looking for in an IPA :)
This is an important point to consider. I just charged blindly into remman4's recipe without taking the time to understand what a late addition of extract (or at flameout as with this recipe) does. So far it seems to have turned out well. But after the brew when I used a calculator to est the gravity and ibus I was shocked to see that the late addition took my ibus from around 90 to more like 180. And that site defined late addition as at 10-15 min, not at flameout as I did it. Granted the recipe did say 100+ ibus , but I guess I didn't know what i was getting myself into. :) That said so far the flavor is pretty good. Maybe a bit too much bittering hops for my taste, but I'm not a pure hophead either. I like hops, but probably more on the aromatic side. For what it's worth.
 

treznor

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This is an important point to consider. I just charged blindly into remman4's recipe without taking the time to understand what a late addition of extract (or at flameout as with this recipe) does. So far it seems to have turned out well. But after the brew when I used a calculator to est the gravity and ibus I was shocked to see that the late addition took my ibus from around 90 to more like 180. And that site defined late addition as at 10-15 min, not at flameout as I did it. Granted the recipe did say 100+ ibus , but I guess I didn't know what i was getting myself into. :) That said so far the flavor is pretty good. Maybe a bit too much bittering hops for my taste, but I'm not a pure hophead either. I like hops, but probably more on the aromatic side. For what it's worth.
I know you were just agreeing with me, but I have to disagree with you (and my previous self). It looks like hop utilization isn't affected by wort gravity anywhere near as much as people thought a couple years ago. In the last two years most of the 'big names' in homebrewing (Palmer et al) have determined, based on a couple of studies, that hop utilization doesn't change that much based on wort gravity but more than likely based more on break material, which isn't really a huge concern for extract brewing.

The calculators, however, haven't caught up...
 

RunnerDude

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I know you were just agreeing with me, but I have to disagree with you (and my previous self). It looks like hop utilization isn't affected by wort gravity anywhere near as much as people thought a couple years ago. In the last two years most of the 'big names' in homebrewing (Palmer et al) have determined, based on a couple of studies, that hop utilization doesn't change that much based on wort gravity but more than likely based more on break material, which isn't really a huge concern for extract brewing.

The calculators, however, haven't caught up...
Interesting. Thanks for letting me know. So my newly gained piece of knowledge was actually already out of date. Damn. :)
 

RunnerDude

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How much LME/DME are you using in total for your recipe?
Just saw your post. Not sure if this was directed at me or not. But for what it's worth, I followed the original recipe you posted. The only difference in malt was the liquid extract. The shop I went to didn't have Canadian two row so they subbed a generic light extract (might have been amber, I'd have to look at my notes).

Also, I never gave the final update on how mine came out. This seems pretty well carbed now. I had one two nights ago and sadly have to report it didn't come out all that well. I made so many changes, I don't think I can say that it's any fault of the original recipe. Most likely either my changes or other mistakes of a newbie brewer led it down the road of mediocrity. It's not bad, just nothing special. It's fairly bitter without much hop flavor or aroma. And there isn't much as far as other flavors either. It has a very mild sweetness, which could be nice but just doesn't' seem to balance out with the hop bitterness. Also it's kind of thin for a dark beer. If I had to do it over I think I'd stick with the Black Patent and personally I'd move more of the hops later in the hop schedule for less bittering and more aroma/flavor. Maybe my hop changes weren't good, but I went with what my shop had and their recommendations. The Chinook was my idea and I really can't say if that helped or hurt. On the upside, this strikes me as a beer that will age well. So, I'm going to be patient and try to wait another month or so and see how it is. My guess is that it will only improve from here.

Did you make another batch? I'd be interested to hear how it came out.
 

remman4

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My next batch is in primary now and I just dry hopped it yesterday with the plans to bottle it next weekend

Sorry your luck was different, but I have had many batches under par but they are fewer and farther between these days
 

RunnerDude

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Well, good luck. I'll hope to hear in a few weeks that it came out great.

I'm sure my beers will improve as my experience does. I'm excited to try my next one, I just haven't decided what it will be.
 

remman4

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Well it is too soon to tell what the mature flavor profile will be I can definitely say that this batch is Much more like an imperial stout than a black IPA.

I wonder if my boil and steep volumes were a lot lower last time through...

I will let it age for a few more weeks, but my initial impression is that my grain bill is too assertive in my original recipe


I will keep you posted
 

RunnerDude

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Interesting. Mine did taste a fair amount like a very hopped up version of the stout I made. I figured they were similar grains from the same store and I used the same bucket which wasn't perhaps cleaned as well as it should have been. But if you had the same thought. Perhaps there's more to it. When you say the grain bill is too assertive, do you mean there was too much grain or are you referring to the selection of grains?

As an aside, since I had this thought myself I started wondering what the difference between a black IPA and a hopped up stout really is. They seem like they have pretty similar ingredients.
 

remman4

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I meant too much grain and possibly too many roasted grains

I will keep you posted
 

RunnerDude

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Well it is too soon to tell what the mature flavor profile will be I can definitely say that this batch is Much more like an imperial stout than a black IPA.

I wonder if my boil and steep volumes were a lot lower last time through...

I will let it age for a few more weeks, but my initial impression is that my grain bill is too assertive in my original recipe


I will keep you posted
I had forgotten to update this thread, but after 4+ months in the bottle this beer is very different. It's fairly good, but doesn't really taste like a Black IPA any longer. It has gotten very sweet (almost syrupy so perhaps just a bit too sweet) and the hop character that was so prominent at first has faded a good deal. In fact the hops have become a fairly subtle secondary characteristic. Someone who tried it thought it tasted more like a Scotch Ale. I don't totally agree, but I can certainly see where he's coming from. The alcohol taste has gotten very strong too (in a pleasant way). This made me think of your comment about an Imperial Stout. Mine's too sweet to fall into that category, but I can see what you mean I think. Also the last one I had poured a massive head and was overflowing. Not sure why it would be more carbed now than after 2 months in the bottle.

I am wondering if I'm storing the bottles in too warm a place. It's at the bottom of a staircase to the basement which is just about the coolest part of the house I have access to. But it might get as warm as mid 70s down there. I would guess it's high 60s-low70s most of the time in the summer. And the temp down there is probably fairly stable.
 
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