Help with Belgian IPA

[ericd]

Here's my working Belgian IPA recipe

3.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 25.5 %
6.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 51.1 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.5 %
0.25 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 2.1 %
0.25 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2.1 %
1.25 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 10.6 %

0.25 oz Chinook [13.00%] (90 min) Hops 14.6 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 58.6 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 24.8 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (20 min) Hops 8.3 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (5 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -

1 Pkgs Belgian Style Ale Blend (White Labs #WLP575) Yeast-Ale

It had these problems:
1) Too dark, beersmith says it should be 5.6 SRM color but it definately was a dark amber. Could it be my water?
2) Not malty enough, needs more maltiness to stand up to the hops, more vienna and aromatic malt?
3) Too bitter. I like the basic flavor of this one, but it's too bitter and piney. How would I make it more aromatic and floral?

 

[Oldsock]

1) Extract often ends up adding more color than expected. When are you adding it? Try adding it closer to the end of the boil.

2) By malty, do you mean malt character or sweetness? If you want more malt character I would split the basemalt between vienna and pils (although this would make the beer slightly darker). If you want sweetness i would up the mash temp (but then Belgians are known for being pretty dry).

3) I would use a less agressive hop than chinook. Use something smoother like magnum, galena, or warrior. You may also want to use some hops with a more mellow character, I had good luck with Sterling and Crystal in a Hoppy Tripel.

Hope that helps, good luck.

 

[ericd]

1) I added the extract after fermtation had already started.
2) I'll try half vienna, half pils.
3) Thanks for the hop suggestions. Are there any "floral" high alpha hops out there? Like a high AA goldings variety? What do you think about nugget (never tried them)?

 

[Oldsock]

I’ve used nugget for bittering, but never for flavor, so I can’t speak to them. If you want EKG aroma, just use them at the end of the boil where you maximize aroma and the AA% doesn’t matter.

 

[mkling]

The easiest thing to answer here is that it's too bitter because your IBUs are way too high for the amount of malt. You've got Imperial IPA bitterness and regular IPA malt. Your bitterness is over 110 IBU. That's huge especially for your light malt & use of candi sugar which lightens the body of any beer. Finally, all those hops probably overwhelmed any interesting Belgian yeast flavors.

Personally, I'd aim for bitterness in the 60 IBU range which fits with a conventional IPA & would bring forward more malt and Belgian yeast.

 

[ericd]

Okay i figure i'll halve the 60 minute addition an up the vienna and aromatic malts.

What do you all think about horizon for bittering instead of chinook? Anyone used them?

 

[marc06]

I've used chinook for bittering and I really like it. Terrapin had a special release beer something along the lines that your trying to make, it was freaking awsome. Check it out Terrapin Beer Athens, Georgia Microbrew Ale Pilsner

 

[ChshreCat]

1) I added the extract after fermtation had already started.

I read this and it seemed so wrong... but then I couldn't really say why. I've never heard of someone adding extract to the fermenter. Did you just pour the syrup right in or how did you do it?

Technically, since the extract was boiled when it was made, it doesn't really need anything else, so why not?

This is a very interesting idea.

 

[JRPVR6]

i have a recipe that calls for 2 oz chinook and 2 0z centennial for bittering hops...centennial for flavoring and horizon for aroma

last time i brewed i did 2 0z magnum and 1 oz chinook for bittering, 1 oz centennial flavoring, 1 oz chinook for aroma...

both times the beer has turned out great. Remarkably similar. I think the magnums i used were a really clean bittering hop comprable to horizons and it allowed the chinook bittering to shine through. Both batches i dry hopped with 2 oz horizons. good luck

 

[ericd]

I read this and it seemed so wrong... but then I couldn't really say why. I've never heard of someone adding extract to the fermenter. Did you just pour the syrup right in or how did you do it?

Technically, since the extract was boiled when it was made, it doesn't really need anything else, so why not?

This is a very interesting idea.

Yeah i just poured the powder right in, I figured I'd give the yeast a chance to get started at a low gravity since it's easier for them then bump it up. I made the mistake of getting a 5 gal mash tun which I can only do 8 lbs (12 if I feel masochistic) of grain in it, which is why I use it.

 

[ChshreCat]

Yeah i just poured the powder right in, I figured I'd give the yeast a chance to get started at a low gravity since it's easier for them then bump it up. I made the mistake of getting a 5 gal mash tun which I can only do 8 lbs (12 if I feel masochistic) of grain in it, which is why I use it.

You might have dodged a bullet there. You don't want to put anything dry into fermenting beer. There can be a lot of dissolved CO2 in the beer. Ever see the trick with diet coke and mentos? Same thing can happen. WOOSH beer everywhere. There's stories on here from a few folks who added sugar additions dry.

 

[ericd]

Trust me, it's fine, i've done it before!

 

[ChshreCat]

Trust me, it's fine, i've done it before!

Famous last words

Just letting ya know other folks have put dry goods into fermenting beer and got a beer volcano. It could still happen to you. But I urge you to keep doing it, if for no other reason so that you can post pics if it ever happens to you.

 

[ericd]

Okay

I think the problem is they try to stir it in. I just let it sit on top. +1 for laziness.

 

[ChshreCat]

Nope. They pour it in and immediately get a volcano. Just to be safe you might want to dissolve it in a little water. But it's your brew and your process.

 

[ericd]

I could see that happening with sugar or dextrose, but DME just clumps and forms a solid rock then dissolves slowly.

What about mentos for degassing wine?

 

[mac1jw]

Check the AA on the Cascades. I worked up a recipe for an IPA based upon the Cascades AA in the 5.5% range. I bought some Cascades today...the AA is 7.4%...anybody else seeing this increase?