Help with beer body/general concepts

[rmeskill]

Ok, so a little background: I'm not a new brewer, I just haven't bothered with most of the 'details' for the past couple years. I've probably done about 40-50 batches in the past couple years, most of solid quality, a few misses. But one thing that's always gotten me is how some of my beers end up tasting a fair bit maltier despite having a rough grain bill like others. There's nothing terribly consistent about my setup, but here's roughly what I'm working with, and apologies, but I'm metric...

-I'm all grain, and I generally use about 3-5kg of grain (I shoot for 3.5-5% ABV, typically-don't much care for strong beers) for a 19L (5 gallon) batch. My efficiencies in BeerSmith come out to between 60-70%, though I'm generally around 66%.
-Typically I go for a 1hr mash in a 30L bucket with a screen on the bottom to sparge directly in that container. I have *NO* idea what the distinction of light vs medium vs full-body means in BeerSmith, so I generally use the 'Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out' option, which is 68.4C or 155F.
-I then add 2-4L (.5-1g) of near-boiling water to bring the temp back up over 71C/160F. Historically I would vourlaf, but I found that lowered my efficiency down to around 55-60%, so I just started tapping this directly and letting the grain settle while I sprinkled water over the grain.
-I collect 21-24L depending on whether I'm going for a 60-90' boil, boil and follow hop additions, chill, use an aquarium pump to aerate, then let ferment around 18C/65F.

Now for some beers (a simple session IPA I just made, for example) I get a heavy malty flavor when I was looking for a cleaner, dryer body. I used 3.8kg (8.3lbs) of grain (92% Pale, 8% Caraamber 60EBC) with a 1.068 IBU/SG ratio. I generally use S05 and typically get down in the 1.002-1.004 range and this one was no difference-finished at 1.003, but it's definitely got a heavy malt note to it. What am I doing wrong? I imagine it has everything to do with my mash/sparge, but I would rather tweak my method to head in the right direction rather than completely change everything and start from scratch. Any help would be appreciated-cheers!

 

[tgolanos]

If your beer is too malty, it could be the CaraAmber. Maybe cut down on that or replace it entirely with a different malt. You could also mash at a lower temperature to achieve a drier finish. Try 65°C-ish.

Also, what hops are you using? You could try to mask the maltiness with more bittering and/or aroma hops.

I wouldn't change all of these variables at once, though. Pick one to change and see what you get from it. Good luck!

 

[GPP33]

I’d try dropping the creaamber completely and shoot for 150F for the mash. Mineral content in the water could be holding you back too.

 

[rmeskill]

I've never tested mineral content in my water, but I've definitely done 150 and used Crystal 60/80/120 instead of Caramber to the same results. What sort of issues might mineral content cause? I've never tested or even filtered my water-I always just use it straight from the tap...

 

[waldoar15]

If 150* doesn't do it then try reducing the cara.

 

[MSK_Chess]

I've never tested mineral content in my water, but I've definitely done 150 and used Crystal 60/80/120 instead of Caramber to the same results. What sort of issues might mineral content cause? I've never tested or even filtered my water-I always just use it straight from the tap...

Your water could cause issues with pH. 60% efficiency is fairly low, normally you should expect to get at least 70 and sometimes even 80% and the enzymes which convert the starches into fermentable sugars require not only an optimal temperature range but also an optimal pH range. It does not sound though if you have a problem with fermentation. My beers hardly ever finish below 1010 and yet they are never overtly malty. you could try doing a smash beer, you get some fantastic result just with a single malt and a single hop. what kind of IBU's are you hoping? if you make a 1050 beer usually IBU's should be in the 30-40 range. That should definitely provide enough bitterness to balance the malt. It really is in the details and there are so many things we can try to improve our process. even simply boiling the mash water and letting it cool is beneficial for precipitating out excess carbonates and reducing oxygen.

P.S. Metric is the best!

 

[AzOr]

Another thing to consider is pellet hops vs whole leaf. I try to use whole leaf and will increase them by 20-25% when following a recipe.

 

[thehaze]

8% CaraAmber or any other Crystal would not give the heavy malt flavour you are implying...So I think your issue is somewhere else. Can you give us a recipe you made recently and was too heavy on the maltiness?

Your beers end up under 1.005, which means they should be very, very dry. A heavier maltier flavour, in my mind, sounds like a lack of balance in the beer, which could mean a lack of adequate bitterness and hops. Your water, if very high in Chloride, will enhance the maltiness and sweetness from specialty malts. Do you know what kind of water are you brewing with? If not, there is no way of determing whether the water is causing these issues.

You are mashing high at 155F, but when the FG is that low, it does not really matter.

 

[rmeskill]

Ok, to address a few issues at once, here. I rarely go under on hops/IBUs-if anything I'm a bit high on the style-guide, so I don't think it's (theoretical) balance, but it may well still be a water issue. Last 3 I've done are a session IPA:
3.5kg Pale (92%)
300g Caraamber (8%)
Warrior/Mosaic/Simcoe up to 45IBUs, ratio 1.068
APA:
4kg Pale (87%)
400g Munich I (11%)
100g Dexdrine (2%)
Cascade to 31IBUs, ratio .684
Session NEIPA:
4kg Pale (77%)
500g Flaked Oats (10%)
500g Wheat Malt (10%)
200g Meladonin (3%)
Citra/Amarillo/Mosaic to 51IBUs, ratio 1.003

The APA ended up crazy malty, but I'm sure that's in large part due to the low IBUs. But the NEIPA seemed far better balanced between malt/hops than the sess IPA did. Again I haven't tested my water-would pH be the main issue I'd be looking for? And what starting/ending pH would I be looking for in my mash?

 

[RM-MN]

Ok, to address a few issues at once, here. I rarely go under on hops/IBUs-if anything I'm a bit high on the style-guide, so I don't think it's (theoretical) balance, but it may well still be a water issue. Last 3 I've done are a session IPA:
3.5kg Pale (92%)
300g Caraamber (8%)
Warrior/Mosaic/Simcoe up to 45IBUs, ratio 1.068
APA:
4kg Pale (87%)
400g Munich I (11%)
100g Dexdrine (2%)
Cascade to 31IBUs, ratio .684
Session NEIPA:
4kg Pale (77%)
500g Flaked Oats (10%)
500g Wheat Malt (10%)
200g Meladonin (3%)
Citra/Amarillo/Mosaic to 51IBUs, ratio 1.003

The APA ended up crazy malty, but I'm sure that's in large part due to the low IBUs. But the NEIPA seemed far better balanced between malt/hops than the sess IPA did. Again I haven't tested my water-would pH be the main issue I'd be looking for? And what starting/ending pH would I be looking for in my mash?

Dexdrine is unfermentable sugars. That adds body to the beer and tends to improve heading. Adding that to a mash temp of 155F should give you a fairly malty beer. Try this recipe again with a mash temp of 148 to 152 and the maltiness should be reduced. Leave out the dexdrine too.