Help with a dry stout

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Wrathchild

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I will be trying my 1st dry stout for my next brew. I'm looking for a roasty coffee flavor fairly dominate up front, but on the back end a bitter chocolate bite. So far for a 5 gallon batch I have 6.5lbs pale 2 row, 12oz roasted barley, 4oz of pale chocolate, and I was looking at the srm calculator and it didn't look jet black to me so I was gonna throw in 4 oz of black malt. Am I near a ballpark for my description? Or am I just gonna taste roasted barley. I would think fermenter additions could be needed for the chocolate kick but I honestly have no idea as this is my first run. Any thoughts or comments would be bada$$! I was also thinking of throwing a pound of Munich in as well
 

BrewerinBR

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12 OZ of roasted barley is a lot. Roasted barley can be really stringent. Up the amount of chocolate to 12 OZ and reduce the roasted barley to 6 or 8 OZ. That should be enough make it fairly dry. I would up the pale 2 row by a pound and save the Munich for a German lager.
 
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Wrathchild

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12 OZ of roasted barley is a lot. Roasted barley can be really stringent. Up the amount of chocolate to 12 OZ and reduce the roasted barley to 6 or 8 OZ. That should be enough make it fairly dry. I would up the pale 2 row by a pound and save the Munich for a German lager.
Good to know cause the recipe looked at actually called for a full pound of roasted barley but 12 is all I have on hand and I didnt want to buy more cause its rarely used. In your opinion does the pale chocolate malt actually leave a bitter chocolate flavor without using actual chocolate in the recipe? Plus do you think a couple oz of black malt just to blacken it up wouldn't mess with the flavor too much?
 

BrewerinBR

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Pale Chocolate is pretty mild, you may want to consider a standard chocolate malt, it is a little darker and has a more robust chocolate flavor.
If your really looking for a back end bitter chocolate flavor, take 1/4 to a 1/2 cup of cocoa baking powder and boil it in 1 and 1/2 cups of water and add to the fermenter after primary fermentation is done. That's going to boost the cocoa flavor. Once that settles outs you can package it.
be careful with the amount a little goes a long way.
 
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Wrathchild

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Pale Chocolate is pretty mild, you may want to consider a standard chocolate malt, it is a little darker and has a more robust chocolate flavor.
If your really looking for a back end bitter chocolate flavor, take 1/4 to a 1/2 cup of cocoa baking powder and boil it in 1 and 1/2 cups of water and add to the fermenter after primary fermentation is done. That's going to boost the cocoa flavor. Once that settles outs you can package it.
be careful with the amount a little goes a long way.
I was just reading up on cocoa powder and when to add it and its all over the board. I forget to mention the flaked barley ill be using too but thats nothing to do with the chocolate. What if I just leave out the pale chocolate malt and use the powder? I predominantly want the roasted creamy flavor but a small chocolate bite so I may consider the baking chocolate after primary! Thanks for the awesome advise
 
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Wrathchild

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Chocolate wheat and chocolate rye give very big chocolate impressions. No husk, no bitterness.
I just checked my stash and I have midnight wheat so I don't suspect that will give chocolate flavors will it
 

BrewerinBR

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I would keep the chocolate malt. Adding specific flavors like coffee or chocolate or apple or pumpkin work best when added after fermentation.
At least that has been my experience.
 

BrewerinBR

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I have used Midnight wheat once in a dark wheat ale turned out ok ... but that was some time ago. Since I am not a big fan of wheat beers I don't make many. I don't believe it would add much in the way of chocolate, it may however give you the "creamy roast flavor"!
 
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Wrathchild

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I would keep the chocolate malt. Adding specific flavors like coffee or chocolate or apple or pumpkin work best when added after fermentation.
At least that has been my experience.
Apple? Really? I've gotta up my stout game cause I feel like folks make these like desert drinks! So many possibilities in this style. Seems like your into the stout game, do you try to stay low abv with dry stouts? Like 4-4.5ish% abv? I've only been brewing for about 2 years and I'm having a tougher time brewing beers with less abv then alot. They tend to taste alot better with lower abv. I mean like below 6%
 

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I've had great results using more pale chocolate as well as 500L chocolate malts without ANY black malts in my chocolate stout recipe. Same for my mocha porter. As in just over 15% of the grist was pale chocolate malt.
This is the ratios for the coming chocolate stout:
1643924376337.png
 

BrewerinBR

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Apple -- I was referring to adding any specific flavor to any beer in general not a dry stout in particular ... however an Apple Stout
heavy roast flavors would go better with pears ... apples and wheat to make an apple wheat ale ... that me be something?
 
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Wrathchild

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I have used Midnight wheat once in a dark wheat ale turned out ok ... but that was some time ago. Since I am not a big fan of wheat beers I don't make many. I don't believe it would add much in the way of chocolate, it may however give you the "creamy roast flavor"!
I'm throwing over a pound of flaked barley in there(which I've never used) for "creamy". I guess thats what that grain is suppose to do? It's recommended in dry Irish stout recipes to be traditional but im far from traditional
I've had great results using more pale chocolate as well as 500L chocolate malts without ANY black malts in my chocolate stout recipe. Same for my mocha porter. As in just over 15% of the grist was pale chocolate malt.
This is the ratios for the coming chocolate stout:
View attachment 758067
I feel like I'm gonna regret not using maris otter. That stuff is soooo good! Have you tried one thats half roasty and half chocolate? I don't know how else to describe it. A local taphouse had a dry Irish stout that blew my head off with coffee first and then bitter chocolate at the end and I'm dreaming of that taste again!
 

DBhomebrew

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I sub chocolate malts 1:1 with chocolate rye. Very chocolate-y, a little spice. My understanding is chocolate wheat is much the same but a darker chocolate. 85% vs rye's Special Dark.
 

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How much flaked depends on your setup (how you're mashing) and such. I used a full pound in some recipes but it was a bit too sticky in the mash. Reduced to 1/2# and that went away. I would prefer to not have to toss rice hulls into the MT when I can simply dial back the flaked barley to get things moving well. I add it more for body boosting and head retention. Pouring with nitro mix improves mouth feel to the recipe too (I pour all my dark beers on nitro mix).

The grist I showed was for the rev2 of my recipe. I might do a rev3 after, depending on how it comes out. This is a sweet stout, which is really just the mash temperature I'm using.

I'm using MO for my base malt these days. Well, the coming imperial stout will have some MO and the last of the UK 2 row I had bought earlier. Then everything will be with MO. I just love what it gives the recipes. Plus having just one base malt makes inventory tracking easier. ;)
 
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Wrathchild

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I sub chocolate malts 1:1 with chocolate rye. Very chocolate-y, a little spice. My understanding is chocolate wheat is much the same but a darker chocolate. 85% vs rye's Special Dark.
Wow rye spice with chocolate sounds pretty darn inviting! I'm gonna be brewing some stouts now! I've gotta get a good understanding of them through trials. I'm getting tired of hoppy ales and ipas to be honest. I like drinking 4-5 different styles during a session, thats why I bottle! It honestly might be a little north of 4-5 during a session if we're being honest!
 
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Wrathchild

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How much flaked depends on your setup (how you're mashing) and such. I used a full pound in some recipes but it was a bit too sticky in the mash. Reduced to 1/2# and that went away. I would prefer to not have to toss rice hulls into the MT when I can simply dial back the flaked barley to get things moving well. I add it more for body boosting and head retention. Pouring with nitro mix improves mouth feel to the recipe too (I pour all my dark beers on nitro mix).

The grist I showed was for the rev2 of my recipe. I might do a rev3 after, depending on how it comes out. This is a sweet stout, which is really just the mash temperature I'm using.

I'm using MO for my base malt these days. Well, the coming imperial stout will have some MO and the last of the UK 2 row I had bought earlier. Then everything will be with MO. I just love what it gives the recipes. Plus having just one base malt makes inventory tracking easier. ;)
I just bottled my 16th all grain brew and I did 2 extracts before that so im a brewing baby! My setup is as primitive as it gets. 16 gallon kettle and some big brew bags and its all do e full volume in there. I've not had a stuck brew bag yet but my dad wanted to do a 50/50 rye wheat malt ale and it was a flat out full bag of wort that wouldn't move! Never again. What if I half the the barley and use some of the midnight wheat? Help unstick the bag and still get some body? The dark is definitely wanted cause I dont want to see anything through this glass. Which grain makes the head that pretty tan color? On a whim of not knowing what to expect, I brewed with 8lbs of maris otter and 5lb red x with just a small amount of fuggle and its one of the best beers I've ever tasted! I've done smash beers with standard pale 2 row and it almost has a flat diet flavor to it with nothing on the back end. Boring is what im getting at
 
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Wrathchild

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Apple -- I was referring to adding any specific flavor to any beer in general not a dry stout in particular ... however an Apple Stout
heavy roast flavors would go better with pears ... apples and wheat to make an apple wheat ale ... that me be something?
Its absolutely amazing how much I've learned about beer and chemistry in just 2 short years of doing it. I was always the guy who only drank miller light and nothing else until I went to Alaska and had a denali twister creek. It tasted like the sweetest fresh Alaskan flowers and I started looking into what made that flavor in that brew and it turns out it's hops! My curiosity went wild from there trying bunches of hops. Next was styles of beers and I soon learned you just can't find a big diversity of flavors in local liquor stores so then it's off to small craft breweries and I discovered grains I've never tasted! It's a hobby that has literally consumed me and I can't get enough of it. Chasing flavor man
 

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12 OZ of roasted barley is a lot. Roasted barley can be really stringent. Up the amount of chocolate to 12 OZ and reduce the roasted barley to 6 or 8 OZ. That should be enough make it fairly dry. I would up the pale 2 row by a pound and save the Munich for a German lager.

Roasted barley is very roasty and even burnt with ton of dark roast coffee flavors but it literally defines the dry stout style. If you use the Briess 350L version, a full pound is about right. If it's the Briess Black Barley version or Crisp 520L for example, 12oz is more like it.
 
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Wrathchild

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Roasted barley is very roasty and even burnt with ton of dark roast coffee flavors but it literally defines the dry stout style. If you use the Briess 350L version, a full pound is about right. If it's the Briess Black Barley version or Crisp 520L for example, 12oz is more like it.
Northern brewers stats say the stuff I got is 480-500L, crisp roasted English barley. I've eaten it and its dark and tastes damn near like a coffee bean with a hint of dried grass. I think I'll bite the bullet and use 12oz and finish the bag. Have you ever thrown cocoa powder In at the end of the boil? I want a little chocolate on the back end with a little bitter but im still undecided on how. I know this first brew is a toe dip into dry stouts for me and I won't get perfect on the first run. East kent goldings is my hop also
 

bwible

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Roasted barley is very roasty and even burnt with ton of dark roast coffee flavors but it literally defines the dry stout style. If you use the Briess 350L version, a full pound is about right. If it's the Briess Black Barley version or Crisp 520L for example, 12oz is more like it.
Yep. I was just going to say I recently did a 3 gallon batch of dry stout with 12 oz of roasted barley and to me its not as roasty as say Guiness and I’m writing notes to use more next time.
 
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