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Help w deciding on NEIPA Hops

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brew703

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Brewing on Saturday. Have brewed many NEIPAs over the last few years so just looking to maybe change up the hops a bit. I normally use juicy hop varieties when brewing this style.

Grain bill
63.8% Pilsner
12.8% Malted Oats
12.8% White wheat
8.5% flaked oats
2.1% Honey malt

Yeast: Omega Voss Kveik
Hops:
Thinking I will showcase either Galaxy or Vic secret. Then complement with two more of the following.
El Dorado
Amarillo
Centennial
Motueka
Simcoe
Citra
Cascade
Azacca
Huell Melon
Mosaic

Suggestions please.
 

MrPowers

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I would probably Galaxy/Amarillo. Or Vic secret/Citra/azacca.

Edit:
Thought of a few more...
Galaxy/Simcoe/Motueka
Galaxy/Simcoe/Mosaic
Galaxy/Huell Melon/El Dorado
Vic Secret/Columbus (I know it’s not on the list, but I recently did this one and it was amazing)
Vic Secret/Mosaic/Simcoe

I would also ditch the Kviek and use S04 or 1318, but that’s just my preference.
 
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couchsending

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Between the esters from that yeast and the sheer potency of Vic Secret and/or Galaxy you’re going to not want to bother with Azacca, Huell Melon, Cascade, Amarillo, unless you’re going to use a lot.

Mosaic on the hotside as it’s the most potent hop on that list for hot side additions. Maybe favor Simcoe/Mosaic on the hotside with a bit of whatever Aussie hop you chose them favor the Aussie Hop in DH with Simcoe/Mosaic split?

Galaxy and Simcoe is pretty bangin, at least with normal yeast. No clue with Kviek what will happen.
 
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brew703

brew703

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Between the esters from that yeast and the sheer potency of Vic Secret and/or Galaxy you’re going to not want to bother with Azacca, Huell Melon, Cascade, Amarillo, unless you’re going to use a lot.

Mosaic on the hotside as it’s the most potent hop on that list for hot side additions. Maybe favor Simcoe/Mosaic on the hotside with a bit of whatever Aussie hop you chose them favor the Aussie Hop in DH with Simcoe/Mosaic split?

Galaxy and Simcoe is pretty bangin, at least with normal yeast. No clue with Kviek what will happen.
Thanks for the info. I've only used Voss once and it produced a lot of Pineapple for me. Hoping more for orange or something other than Pineapple.
So, I'm kinda leaning to using Simcoe/Mosaic and a little Galaxy in the WP and maybe 2-1-1 Galaxy/Mosaic/Simcoe DH.
 

couchsending

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When Galaxy is good it’s straight passion fruit for me.. when it’s good.

There are different studies out there but if the yeast has the ability to biotransform (I don’t know about Voss) the thiol 3MH can be converted by yeast into 3MHA. 3MH actually increases during the boil. Certain lots of cascade have been shown to be very high in 3MH, same with Simcoe. Adding one or both of those at 30 minutes might help to amplify the passionfruit character of Galaxy...might.
 
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brew703

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When Galaxy is good it’s straight passion fruit for me.. when it’s good.

There are different studies out there but if the yeast has the ability to biotransform (I don’t know about Voss) the thiol 3MH can be converted by yeast into 3MHA. 3MH actually increases during the boil. Certain lots of cascade have been shown to be very high in 3MH, same with Simcoe. Adding one or both of those at 30 minutes might help to amplify the passionfruit character of Galaxy...might.
Good info. I might try adding in some Cascade and Simcoe at 30 to see what happens.
Scott Janish wrote about Thiol 3MH and fermenting around 59 i believe so yea i'm not sure what will happen with Voss. I'm tempted to ferment Voss at the low end of the recommended range but just not sure. Omega says one should get the same flavor profile across the entire temp range but i just have a hard time believing that.

I can also use Conan but kinda wanted to give Voss another try as i was less then impressed with the first use.
 

couchsending

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Yeah I personally can’t stand most Kviek yeasts. They all seem to have this weird mouthfeel to me which, from what I can find, is from excessive organic acid production as compared to most ale and lager strains.

I think Conan is the best yeast for modern fruity IPA. It’s not as sweet at 1318 at the same gravity and I think it lets hops shine even more. It can be way more finicky though and certain versions of it seem to flocc better than others??
 

MrPowers

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I might just go with Conan instead.
I actually prefer Conan to S04 or 1318, I just don't usually recommend it to people because it can be so finicky. I'm glad to see you're going this route, because I've never had a Kviek IPA I've actually liked. I've had some that were good, but they would've been better with a more conventional yeast.

As far as blending Galaxy/vic secret with some of the more "mild" or "traditional" hops like Amarillo. They will over power them, yes. But those classic hops can help to fill out the character of those more potent hops and make "pop" even better. That's the theory behind Tree House Green, for example.
 
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brew703

brew703

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I actually prefer Conan to S04 or 1318, I just don't usually recommend it to people because it can be so finicky. I'm glad to see you're going this route, because I've never had a Kviek IPA I've actually liked. I've had some that were good, but they would've been better with a more conventional yeast.

As far as blending Galaxy/vic secret with some of the more "mild" or "traditional" hops like Amarillo. They will over power them, yes. But those classic hops can help to fill out the character of those more potent hops and make "pop" even better. That's the theory behind Tree House Green, for example.
Thanks. I liked Hornindal but Voss is completely different. Blending Galaxy and Vic Secret is a good idea but I want to try and minimize pineapple and I find the batch of VS i have produces a lot of Pineapple.
 

MrPowers

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Thanks. I liked Hornindal but Voss is completely different. Blending Galaxy and Vic Secret is a good idea but I want to try and minimize pineapple and I find the batch of VS i have produces a lot of Pineapple.
I was referring to blending galaxy or vic secret (not both) with one of the more classic hops such as amarillo.
 

Jag75

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My last milkshake IPA I used Mosaic , Amarillo and Galaxy . Orange peel / vanilla bean tincture and it turned out really well . I love GY054 for this style .
 

YeastFeast

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Sabro and anything else. Sabro is my favorite hop right now. Made an all Sabro Hazy just a few weeks ago.
 
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Thanks. heard good things about Sabro although never tried a commercial beer with it.
I need to get some Sabro to try- Trying to use up what I have before ordering more.
 

1galbrewer

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Vic Secret goes well with El Dorado. Maybe add in Mosaic or a more traditional piney hop like cascade or centennial to bring it into balance.

For Galaxy, perhaps use simcoe for bittering, and then mosaic and motueka with motueka being more in the dry hop side to brighten the flavors of Galaxy.

That said, hops high in linalool are considered 'lifter hops' and can accentuate other hop flavors. Crystal and Loral and high in linalool I believe, and I know Sabro does really well supporting other hops. I myself would suggest Sabro/Vic Secret/El Dorado if you have it.
 

couchsending

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I think I might be one of the only people that really doesn’t like Sabro at all. I’ve made 100% Sabro beers and used it in blends. Probably made 8-10 beers with it and had lot of commercial beers with it.

Just made a beer with Galaxy, Mosaic, HBC585, and maybe 5% Sabro in the DH. I can still pick out the Sabro. I think people might perceive some of its character very differently. To me the dill/cedar just comes through way too strong. It’s a bummer cause the smell when you open a bag of Sabro is insane. Hands down the best smelling hop out of the bag.

I’m really excited for HBC586. This hop has lots of really interesting tropical fruit qualities that not many hops have but doesn’t have the woody character that Sabro has. It’s incredibly potent as well, just like Sabro. I’ve used it in 80/20 blend with Citra being the dominant amount and the 586 crushed the Citra character which was crazy.
 

MrPowers

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I think I might be one of the only people that really doesn’t like Sabro at all. I’ve made 100% Sabro beers and used it in blends. Probably made 8-10 beers with it and had lot of commercial beers with it.

Just made a beer with Galaxy, Mosaic, HBC585, and maybe 5% Sabro in the DH. I can still pick out the Sabro. I think people might perceive some of its character very differently. To me the dill/cedar just comes through way too strong. It’s a bummer cause the smell when you open a bag of Sabro is insane. Hands down the best smelling hop out of the bag.

I’m really excited for HBC586. This hop has lots of really interesting tropical fruit qualities that not many hops have but doesn’t have the woody character that Sabro has. It’s incredibly potent as well, just like Sabro. I’ve used it in 80/20 blend with Citra being the dominant amount and the 586 crushed the Citra character which was crazy.
I’m with you, I hate Sabro in large quantities. I wouldn’t even be able to drink a single hop Sabro beer.

Used in very small quantities (5-10%), it can help fill out other hops and add a certain “creamy” character. Any more than that, it just squashes other hops, and not in a pleasant way.
 

1galbrewer

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Yea, I definitely know that dill note in Sabro you're talking about. I've used it relatively sparingly and haven't been bothered by it (less than 5% mostly). With even 1% being Sabro I find the blow off smells purely of Sabro, but by the time the beer comes out I don't taste any of it.

There's probably a good amount of variability in crop year and field, as well as people perceiving different flavor compounds more strongly. People are extremely sensitive to those thiols. I'd just advocate for making sure you have a 'lifter hop' high in linalool somewhere in the early dry hops for biotransformation reasons, if it exists. Not sure Kveik does that like english strains are said to. Personally, I usually just add a tiny amount of Crystal cause I have it on hand and it's a flavor that works in traditional beer and more hoppy ones.
 
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brew703

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I would probably Galaxy/Amarillo. Or Vic secret/Citra/azacca.

Edit:
Thought of a few more...
Galaxy/Simcoe/Motueka
Galaxy/Simcoe/Mosaic
Galaxy/Huell Melon/El Dorado
Vic Secret/Columbus (I know it’s not on the list, but I recently did this one and it was amazing)
Vic Secret/Mosaic/Simcoe

I would also ditch the Kviek and use S04 or 1318, but that’s just my preference.
I don't have any 1318 so opted to go with Conan. I am still unsure of the hops as of this morning.
I do have Columbus- I like the Vic Secrect/Mosaic/Simcoe Combo so might go with that or I could go with Galaxy/Huell Melon/El Dorado.
 

MrPowers

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I don't have any 1318 so opted to go with Conan. I am still unsure of the hops as of this morning.
I do have Columbus- I like the Vic Secrect/Mosaic/Simcoe Combo so might go with that or I could go with Galaxy/Huell Melon/El Dorado.
If you go with the first combo, it will probably be easier to balance the different hops. If you go with the second, you'll probably have to hit it pretty hard with the huell melon to get the balance right.

And I actually prefer Conan to 1318, I just don't recommend it to most people because it can be finicky to work with.
 
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