Help needed finetuning recipe

[Remos112]

Hello everybody Last saturday I brewed my Kwak clone attempt with the following recipe (found on this forum)

Batch size 5 gallons
Boil size 6.47 gallons
Boil time 90 minutes
Grain weight 15.47 pounds
Efficiency 75%
Original gravity 1.084
Final gravity 1.021
Alcohol (by volume) 8.3%
Bitterness (IBU) 22
Color (SRM) 11.8°L
Yeast 3 liquid packs Wyeast ****1762 Belgian Abby Ale II

Grains/Extracts/Sugars 15.47 pounds
Pilsen ****36ppg, 1°L 11.73 pounds ****75.9%
Dry Candi - Clear ****32ppg, °L 1.6 pounds ****10.3%
Munich (Light) ****34ppg, 10°L 1.6 pounds ****10.3%
Special B ****30ppg, 140°L 0.53 pounds ****3.4%

Mash
45 minutes, 8.4 gallons Strike ****Target 158°F
5.2 gallons 170°F 45 minutes (+0)
Sparge
3.2 gallons 172°F

Boil
90 minutes, 6.47 gallons

Challenger hops ****8%, Whole 0.8 ounces 60 minutes
Goldings (Styrian) hops ****5%, Whole 1.07 ounces 15 minutes
Challenger hops ****8%, Whole 0.27 ounces 3 minutes (+57)
Saaz hops ****4%, Whole 0.27 ounces 3 minutes (+57)"

I used the batch sparging method instead of the provide schedule I totally don't get anyway and I used the following numbers
Infusion mash 60minutes@152F
Mash out 15minutes@170F
I ended up with a preboil gravity of 1.065 and exactly 24,5L in the kettle.
I calculated 77,7% mash efficiency where the recipe called for 75% so not too far off I thought.

I then boiled for 90 minutes, since I have read brews with a of pilsener benefit from a longer boil and I ended up with exacty 20L in the fermenter.

OG was 1.086 and this was quite a bit more then I expected or the recipe called for but I figured that I probably had a bit more unformentable sugars in my batch then intended and to just let it ride out hoping it would reach the intended 1.021

! took a FG sample today and to my surprise it is already down to 1.018 after 6 days resulting in 9,63% ABV @78% attenuation.

This really surprised me and it is quite a bit more then I thought I would get.

Since this is a brew I want to do several times (ingredients already bought) or did I mash too long resulting in too much fermentable sugars?
Should I use less grain next time? or maybe add more water preboil?Any tips or suggestions to get closer to the target OG/FG are very welcome.

 

[Remos112]

Some additional info, I made quite a big starter for this beer, possibly why it femented as quickly as it did. Could overpitching help push the attenuation further perhaps?

 

[andrewbrews]

In terms of attenuation, your mash temp is a little low. Bumping up a little may help the FG come up a few points. Pitching a healthy amount of yeast is better than the alternative and I wouldn't change that too much. If you brew again with a higher mash temp, but you get similar results, I would just reduce the Pilsner malt a little bit.

Also, for a 5 gal batch (or a little over 20 l), you want about a half gallon or two liters more into the fermenter. An addition of another .25 g or 1 l of water would have helped get your original gravity down just a little. It doesn't help your finish gravity though.

 

[Remos112]

In terms of attenuation, your mash temp is a little low. Bumping up a little may help the FG come up a few points. Pitching a healthy amount of yeast is better than the alternative and I wouldn't change that too much. If you brew again with a higher mash temp, but you get similar results, I would just reduce the Pilsner malt a little bit.

Also, for a 5 gal batch (or a little over 20 l), you want about a half gallon or two liters more into the fermenter. An addition of another .25 g or 1 l of water would have helped get your original gravity down just a little. It doesn't help your finish gravity though.

Would 155F suffice? Or is it just a question of trial and error from now on.The reason I didn;t add water is because I was afraid it would dilute the hop flavours as well. Although I must say I never imagined it would ferment out to such a high abv. And who knows, maybe it tastes deiicious regardless. I will leave it alone for condition a bit longer that's for sure.

 

[Remos112]

It isn't even done yet. It's down to 1.015. WIll take another sample before bottling 2 weeks from now.

 

[andrewbrews]

Would 155F suffice? Or is it just a question of trial and error from now on.The reason I didn;t add water is because I was afraid it would dilute the hop flavours as well. Although I must say I never imagined it would ferment out to such a high abv. And who knows, maybe it tastes deiicious regardless. I will leave it alone for condition a bit longer that's for sure.

I think it will taste great all things considred. The differences in the recipe and what you produced will be noticeable, but still well within the ballpark.

I'd be mostly guessing on best mash temp to get your attenuation up, but 155 seems like a good place to start. (Edit: After looking at your recipe, it looks like it was shooting for a 158 mash temp. Probably a good place to start)

Honestly, I wouldn't start troubleshooting until you have had the chance to taste your beer.

 

[Remos112]

I think it will taste great all things considred. The differences in the recipe and what you produced will be noticeable, but still well within the ballpark.

I'd be mostly guessing on best mash temp to get your attenuation up, but 155 seems like a good place to start. (Edit: After looking at your recipe, it looks like it was shooting for a 158 mash temp. Probably a good place to start)

Honestly, I wouldn't start troubleshooting until you have had the chance to taste your beer.

Fair point on the tasting, it would probably be a great beer once aged, I fear this make take a while though at this high abv though.
Thanks so far. I will have a pre-taste at bottling day, will post the outcome here.

 

[Remos112]

Tasted the hydrometer sample today and wow, very delicious. Pretty sweet even but definetely a bite due the high abv. PS 1.012

 

[Remos112]

It is holding steady at 1.012. I will put it in the basement . next saterday to bottle it the week after. hopefully it matures well, but at almost 10,5% I have a feeling it might be a while.

 

[Remos112]

I bottled the brew today after sitting 3 weeks on the yeast cake, it looked extremely clear, and smelled amazing. I put a partial bottle in the fridge and decided to taste it. I was impressed. It did taste somewhat alcoholic, but very smooth, almost like a good wisky, very malty in taste too but also very young tasting. But this sure does have potential.
Bottled it in 15 bombers and in a crate of 24x0,33cl bottles. How long you guys recon until this beer reaches it's peak?

 

[andrewbrews]

I bottled the brew today after sitting 3 weeks on the yeast cake, it looked extremely clear, and smelled amazing. I put a partial bottle in the fridge and decided to taste it. I was impressed. It did taste somewhat alcoholic, but very smooth, almost like a good wisky, very malty in taste too but also very young tasting. But this sure does have potential.
Bottled it in 15 bombers and in a crate of 24x0,33cl bottles. How long you guys recon until this beer reaches it's peak?

The quad that I just brewed was already much better after about 6 weeks. Generally though, 6 months is a good target. The trouble I run into is tasting a little at a time, and then just when it hits its prime, I am out.

Good luck holding on to a few of those bombers!

 

[Remos112]

The quad that I just brewed was already much better after about 6 weeks. Generally though, 6 months is a good target. The trouble I run into is tasting a little at a time, and then just when it hits its prime, I am out.

Good luck holding on to a few of those bombers!

Thanks, I'll try not to open any of those bombers for the next 6 months. And maybe the occasional 0.33cl earlier to check on the progress. Also think I will brew this batch again soon, not sure to do it exacyly like this or the hotter mash temperature to end up with lower AG. I'll have some time to think about that one

 

[Remos112]

I tried a 0,33 cl yesterday as I feared Acetobacter got into this batch too, good news is it didn't!
The beer is very very good, but it definetely needs more months in the bottle. It dedintely tastes like kwak but with an extra alcohol kick. I will brew this one in about 7 weeks from now again and I will adjust the temerature to see if I get closer to the target ABV. Thanks for all the tips guys!