Help Me Understand What I’m Dealing With

[rodwha]

For my 100th beer I wanted to do a barleywine. At the time I figured I wanted it to be wine strength and was looking to hit 12% ABV. I emailed Fermentis about alcohol tolerance and was told US-05 (I keep this yeast going as I found it does a little better than the WLP-001 I was using) could handle this if I used yeast nutrient. I made a double starter for this.

On brew day I totally forgot to use the nutrients. I figured this out well into fermentation and took a reading (FG targeted time be 1.021) finding it to be 1.042. I tried making a regular starter and adding the nutrient, and then stirring up the trub gently when I added it. Nothing. I then ordered a dry yeast (Lallemand CBC-1) that does handle high alcohol levels. Eventually it dropped 2 points and by then this beer had been in the fermenter for a bit over a month. I went ahead and bottled it anyway figuring it’s better than just dumping it, and I have some Green Flash bottles that are clearly thinner than average so I filled that 6er up, placed them in a Boulevard box (fully enclosed) and placed that in several plastic bags, and set them at room temp while the rest sat in my chamber at 65* thinking that if any blew I would be those. Several weeks and nothing so I put them in the fridge.

What I ended up with was a lightly carbonated beer (think I was shooting for 2.0 vols). It’s quite sweet, though the plum-like flavors hide it somewhat. This beer is barely 9%.

What I’m struggling to understand is how it was nothing I did brought the FG lower, which to me says the yeast just couldn’t handle the additional sugars. So how did it carbonate? And is this something I should fear in that maybe it will continue to slowly drop? This beer was brewed on 6-27 and bottled on 8-30.

 

[RPh_Guy]

So how did it carbonate?

CBC-1 can easily ferment the priming sugar but not the malt sugars (maltotriose in particular). It's a wine yeast, not a beer yeast.

And is this something I should fear in that maybe it will continue to slowly drop?

No.

 

[bucketnative]

Did you add priming sugar to the bottles, or were you just planning on relying on the remaining sugars to ferment and carbonate the beer?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Did you add priming sugar to the bottles, or were you just planning on relying on the remaining sugars to ferment and carbonate the beer?

I was shooting for 2.0 vols

 

[Vale71]

So how did it carbonate? And is this something I should fear in that maybe it will continue to slowly drop? This beer was brewed on 6-27 and bottled on 8-30.

There was obviously some fermentation going on even if it was really slow. This beer is certainly dangerous as it still contains fermentable sugars and there is other stuff that could ferment it besides the yeast that you originally pitched.

 

[bracconiere]

Was this extract or all-grain? if all-grain what was the mash temp? if all-grain, gluco would drop it to the yeast's tolerance. what was the OG BTW? (don't feel like doing the math to figure it out for 12% with FG of 1.021)

 

[RPh_Guy]

There was obviously some fermentation going on even if it was really slow. This beer is certainly dangerous as it still contains fermentable sugars and there is other stuff that could ferment it besides the yeast that you originally pitched.

Priming sugar explains the carbonation.

It's true contamination could be a potential issue (as with almost any beer), but at 9% ABV and with a killer yeast, the risk is not exactly concerning in my opinion.

gluco would drop it

You think he should empty all the bottles back into the fermenter?

 

[bracconiere]

You think he should empty all the bottles back into the fermenter?

i thought he said he only bottle'd a sixer? what size batch was this? lol (and i've dumped kegs back before )

I filled that 6er up

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeah you could be right. We need clarification on a couple things.

 

[bracconiere]

Yeah you could be right. We need clarification on a couple things.

to me it sounded like he was just going to bottle a 6 pack to make sure he didn't have a recipe for bottle bombs, put them in some sorta box, and a few plastic bags. just in case....

 

[RPh_Guy]

I read it as he used 6 thin bottles to monitor for explosions and the rest went into normal bottles... ??? Not sure. Neither one of those scenarios is something I would do.

Glucoamylase would definitely help with the attenuation if he hasn't bottled it.

 

[bracconiere]

I read it as he used 6 thin bottles to monitor for explosions and the rest went into normal bottles... ???

LOL, I still want to know if it was all-grain or extract....!

 

[rodwha]

I did indeed use priming sugar.

This was a partial mash as I can’t handle a full load with stronger beers. 6 lbs of Golden Light LME and 1/4 lb of DME with 12 lbs of grain.

The mash temp was 155*.

The OG was targeted to be 1.113 but was observed at 1.109.

All of the beer was bottled. The 6er was just the thinner glass to see if they’d make it for a few weeks.

This was a 5 gal batch.

 

[RPh_Guy]

So yeah, you won't need to worry about bombs. The CBC-1 just fermented the priming sugar.

 

[bracconiere]

6 lbs of Golden Light LME and 1/4 lb of DME with 12 lbs of grain.

So yeah, you won't need to worry about bombs. The CBC-1 just fermented the priming sugar.

my green thumbs must be showing, i've never heard of a 12lb steeping grain batch.....what did you steep?

 

[rodwha]

my green thumbs must be showing, i've never heard of a 12lb steeping grain batch.....what did you steep?

Partial mash. This was the recipe I worked up (5 gals):

9.5 lbs Ashburne Mild malt
6 lbs golden light LME @FO
1 lb caramunich
1 lb caravienne
0.5 lb white wheat
0.25 lb light DME @FO
0.5 lb light DME (double starter)
0.75 Oz Chinook (10.7%) FWH 90 min boil
2 Oz Chinook (11.6%) @ 15 mins
0.25 Oz Chinook (10.7%) @ 15 mins
US-05

I calculated at 75% efficiency.

This beer is too sweet. With baby sips I finished the beer I poured. I fear that as the hops begin to fade a bit the sweetness will become more pronounced, right?

I hate wasting beer and money (this was expensive). The wife asked about brewing something to go with it (another batch of it) as I had done the time I used too much honey malt in a blonde and bought huge 32 Oz mugs to blend with wheat beers. She can have some for cooking too. This beer is almost port-like.

 

[bracconiere]

i just noticed, nobody ask yet...FG was taken using a hydrometer? not a refractometer? (not to be insulting, you do say it tastes sweet. so you probaly know better. but 1.021 would be pretty sweet too)

 

[mattdee1]

I'm no barleywine expert, but looking at your recipe, I think I would have moved all of the hops to 60 minutes. This style of beer is usually cellared for a while to allow it to develop into its prime form, which makes late hop additions kind of antithetical to the process.

The fact that you find the beer a bit cloying would also point to needing more early hops.

As for making something else to mix it with, meh, beware the sunk costs fallacy. If I were you, I'd just package it up, store it somewhere cool and dark, and let it ride. In a few months it might surprise you.

 

[Vale71]

In a few months it might surprise you.

Agreed. Most likely with a series of loud bangs...

 

[kevin58]

Next time, or anytime you are making a big beer try making a smaller beer first and rack the big beer on top of the yeast cake from the small beer. Your small beer basically becomes a 5 gallon starter.

 

[rodwha]

Next time, or anytime you are making a big beer try making a smaller beer first and rack the big beer on top of the yeast cake from the small beer. Your small beer basically becomes a 5 gallon starter.

I generally don’t like brewing back to back.

 

[rodwha]

i just noticed, nobody ask yet...FG was taken using a hydrometer? not a refractometer? (not to be insulting, you do say it tastes sweet. so you probaly know better. but 1.021 would be pretty sweet too)

I used a hydrometer. I don’t own a refractometer.

 

[rodwha]

I'm no barleywine expert, but looking at your recipe, I think I would have moved all of the hops to 60 minutes. This style of beer is usually cellared for a while to allow it to develop into its prime form, which makes late hop additions kind of antithetical to the process.

The fact that you find the beer a bit cloying would also point to needing more early hops.

As for making something else to mix it with, meh, beware the sunk costs fallacy. If I were you, I'd just package it up, store it somewhere cool and dark, and let it ride. In a few months it might surprise you.

I vaguely used the MoreBeer kit ingredients when I began working on this recipe. They use 2 Oz of Cascade @5 mins and at 1 min. Knowing that hop aromas are one of the first to go I decided to use a healing amount at 20 so that it should still carry some flavor much later down the road, but should also add to the bitterness. Using the Rager scale this beer has 75 IBUs. Seemed pretty solid to me and wasn’t addressed when I posted my recipe looking for input here and on another forum.

Anyone else feel the hop usage should have been different?

 

[RPh_Guy]

To me it's clear the yeast was the main issue.

So, you're in the 9-10% range, which is the normal tolerance of the beer yeast you used.
The wine yeast can't eat the malt sugar.

You could bottle now and the CBC would carbonate it (assuming you rehydrated it properly). Alternately you could add a beer yeast with higher alcohol tolerance.

Something like WLP099 would have fermented it out to a reasonable FG.
If you hate it, it's possibly not too late to put it back in the fermenter and give it a go.