Help designing my RIMS

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doogie3484

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Hello I am starting to plan and design my new and improved brewery; I have been lurking on this forum for a while now and have yet to see anyone attach the rims to the side of their mash tun. I am thinking about doing tri-clamp rims with a 1 inch tri-clamp ferrules welded to the top of my mash tun and a tri-clamp ball valve holding the rims to the mash tun. Are there any unforeseen problems that could arise with this set up, and do you think I would need a bigger pump then standard march 809.

 

horseinmay

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I like it. Did you consider attaching the RIMS tube to the 2" tri-clamp on the bottom (looks like you are doing the sankey bottom drain)? March 809 will work fine. If you do it on the bottom, then the RIMs setup won't really take up more space. It could look really clean if you do it right.
 
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doogie3484

doogie3484

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No i didn't think of that, but I'm thinking I want to try and put a 5.5kw element in the rims tube so I would be able to have on demand hot water for my sparge. I would like to keep my system rather simple with just 2 kettles and one pump. I think if I just have my water going through the rims tube and being heated for the sparge and I could just pump from my mash tun to my kettle.
 

itsme6582

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I think you'll have some issues getting that tube to heat your water to sparge temps. I know I've seen threads before where it's been tried. I can't vouch for the successfulness.

I keep going over a system in my head where I use a RIMS tube to heat my HLT, mash in, recirc and maintain MLT temp. During mash I would lose heat in the HLT but it would still be hot enough to use the RIMS tube to get back up there on the fly. The difference here would be heating up 120+ degree water rather than tap water. The problem I keep running into is that this seems like an overly complicated way to go about it. Then my mind wanders to the German setup which is kinda like RIMS BIAB.

http://morebeer.com/search/104230
 
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doogie3484

doogie3484

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Ya I was starting to think that if I didn't have enough power to heat the ground water to temp. I could use the hot water from my water heater that already starts at ~130 so I would only have to heat the water an additional 40-50 deg.
 

ChuckO

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I think you'll have some issues getting that tube to heat your water to sparge temps. I know I've seen threads before where it's been tried. I can't vouch for the successfulness.

I keep going over a system in my head where I use a RIMS tube to heat my HLT, mash in, recirc and maintain MLT temp. During mash I would lose heat in the HLT but it would still be hot enough to use the RIMS tube to get back up there on the fly. The difference here would be heating up 120+ degree water rather than tap water. The problem I keep running into is that this seems like an overly complicated way to go about it. Then my mind wanders to the German setup which is kinda like RIMS BIAB.

http://morebeer.com/search/104230
I have been using a 5500 watt RIMS tube for sparge water with good success. I try to sparge at about 1 quart per minute and have ground water at about 48 deg. Have no problem holding 170 output at that flow rate.

I based my design on Sizz's thread for the liquid flow.

Math follows:

Heat capacity of water = 4.184 joules per ml per deg K
947 ml. = 1 qt.
Delta T = 130 deg. F = 72 deg. C
1 joule = 1 watt second

based on a 40 deg. F water source:

947 ml/min = 16 ml/sec
16ml/sec * 4.184 joule/ml C * 72 C = 4820 joules/sec = 4820 watt

With a 5500 watt element the efficiency must be above 87% to maintain that flow rate.

Observation of my system seems to agree with this, as the element is on over 3/4 of the time when I have a higher ground water temperature in the summer.

Mounting your RIMS tube as you show will probably lessen the heat loss that I have with silicone tubing between the RIMS and the mash tank. Looks like a good idea.
 

mabrungard

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The 809 pump will be fine. The head losses in that system will not be that large. Be careful where you locate you temperature sensing element for the PID control. The sensor needs to be immediately downstream of the heater to avoid overheating your wort with the heater. Temperature in the mash is NOT the most important factor. Its temperature in the heating chamber that IS the most important factor.
 

itsme6582

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ChuckO: That's awesome that you can get heat like that. Do you have a thread on it? Do you run on 120 during mash or do you keep it running at 5500?
 

ChuckO

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ChuckO: That's awesome that you can get heat like that. Do you have a thread on it? Do you run on 120 during mash or do you keep it running at 5500?
Sorry, I didn't create a build thread. It's almost impossible to upload pictures or schematics over a dial-up connection, so I never bothered to take many photos. Take a look at Sizz's thread referenced in my earlier post.

I'm running it at 240 during the mash. I didn't see a need to complicate things by heating strike water at 240, mashing at 120 and heating sparge water at 240. The element is only on for 1/4 the time that it would be at 120, and that is within the parameters of my BCS-460.

OP, you might want to make certain that the top of the heating element is kept below the level of the mash to avoid dry firing if the pump loses prime. The water level might fall to the height of the mash in the tank and expose the element. I didn't think of this before.
 
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doogie3484

doogie3484

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OP, you might want to make certain that the top of the heating element is kept below the level of the mash to avoid dry firing if the pump loses prime. The water level might fall to the height of the mash in the tank and expose the element. I didn't think of this before.
Thats somthing I didn't think about I wonder if I could find some kind of check valve that could work. Triclamp looks like they are way too much money, but I am finding some 1/2" threaded fittings that might work. All the ones I am finding are brass which I'm not crazzy about I'll have to keep looking. But i think if I put somthing like this between the rims tube and the mash tun if the pump losses it's prime it would keep the tube full and not dry fire the element. http://www.drillspot.com/products/50753/Control_Devices_IC50_Inline_Check_Valve?s=1
 
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doogie3484

doogie3484

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Ok so I just needed to look a little longer. Found this on ebay I think this could work, I am just worried aout the amount of pressure it takes to open the valve. It doesn't say on this valve all the others quote a 1 psi crack pressure. Does anyone know if that would be too much for the pump to handle?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Steel-In-Line-Check-Valve-1-2-SS-316-NEW-/120762701440 I think I would installing after the ball valve befor the kettle.
 

horseinmay

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You will want to install the check valve below the element. Where it sits now, it will function to keep wort from entering from the tun. You will want it below the element so that when you turn the pump off during recirculation, it will trap any fluid above it inside the rims tube. 1psi is nothing to overcome via the pump. It should work fine.
 
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