Hefeweissen and Weissenbock assistance needed.

[shamfein]

Hey All,

Im now able to do step mashes thanks to the grainfather.

I haven't delved much into step mashing and wanted to get some ideas on maybe a 3 step mash on a hefe,

I was going to keep it very very simple in terms of grain and hops but try to do a complex mash to see if this makes any differences.

Any ideas as to temps and timings would be a great help.

Cheers

 

[LLBeanJ]

A lot of good Weissbier info can be found at:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weissbier_Hell

 

[Ununnilium]

A very good article is in braumagazin.de.

Stepping:
If you like clove aroma, make a step at around 45 °C (113 °F) for 15 min. If only banana aroma is desired, omit this step. Then, a protein step at around 55 °C (131 °F) for 5-10 min should be made. The Bavarian wheat yeast often produce sulfur small during fermentation, enough free amino acids from a protein step or yeast nutrition salt should therefore help. After, a normal step at around 67 °C (153 °F) can be made. In Germany, instead of one 67 °C one at 62 °C and one at 72 °C are made, but this has no advantage in my opinion.


Grains: A wheat malt percentage of 50-70% is usually used. The rest is a mixture of barley malts, mostly Pilsner and something like Vienna, Munich, melanoidine or caramel malt to make it maltier. A solid mixture is 50% wheat, 40% Pilsner and 10% of the paler Munich malt.

Fermentation:
Important is a good liquid yeast, I can recommend Weihenstephan 68 (available as White Labs WLP300 or Wyeast WY3068). Dry yeast normally do not produce the right aromas. A higher fermentation temperature produce more aroma, but a too high temperature produce a solvent aroma. I recommend therefore 23 °C (74 °F) fermentation temperature (measured in the beer).

 

[shamfein]

Fantastic info here guys,

This really helps me out.

I believe im just going with 70/30 wheat to pilsner,

unfortunately no liquid yeast available, it will have to be dry yeast, had different results with previous hefeweissen attempts.

I will ferment around 22/23 for the duration of the primary, then keg.

looking forward to giving this a whirl

 

[motosapiens]

A higher fermentation temperature produce more aroma, but a too high temperature produce a solvent aroma. I recommend therefore 23 °C (74 °F) fermentation temperature (measured in the beer).

I found through experimentation that lower temps (62-64 degrees) produce a more authentic flavor, and one that I prefer, but it's worth experimenting. I brew 30 or so gallons of hefeweizen every year, and over time we've settled on a process of:
20 mins @ 111F, to form the precursors of the yummy clovish spiciness.
60 min main mash at 152-154.
10 min decoction of about a gallon of the mash.
ferment at 62-64f.

The decoction seemed to add a bit of malt backbone and complexity that we liked, and every time we skip it, it seems like the final product is missing something. For fun, we sometimes do blind tastings against commercial munich hef's, and ours pretty much taste the same except fresher. We also like a pound or two of munich malt subbed for some of the pils.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I found through experimentation that lower temps (62-64 degrees) produce a more authentic flavor, and one that I prefer, but it's worth experimenting. I brew 30 or so gallons of hefeweizen every year, and over time we've settled on a process of:
20 mins @ 111F, to form the precursors of the yummy clovish spiciness.
60 min main mash at 152-154.
10 min decoction of about a gallon of the mash.
ferment at 62-64f.

The decoction seemed to add a bit of malt backbone and complexity that we liked, and every time we skip it, it seems like the final product is missing something. For fun, we sometimes do blind tastings against commercial munich hef's, and ours pretty much taste the same except fresher. We also like a pound or two of munich malt subbed for some of the pils.

What's your pitch rate?

 

[motosapiens]

What's your pitch rate?

pretty much a half cup to 2/3 cup of yeast slurry from the previous batch for 5 gallons. Less than that on the first batch of each sequence because i'm only making small starter with a cup of DME. Thinking about a larger starter in the future.

I typically do at least 3, sometimes 4 or 5 batches before I switch to another style and a different yeast.

 

[LLBeanJ]

pretty much a half cup to 2/3 cup of yeast slurry from the previous batch for 5 gallons. Less than that on the first batch of each sequence because i'm only making small starter with a cup of DME. Thinking about a larger starter in the future.

I typically do at least 3, sometimes 4 or 5 batches before I switch to another style and a different yeast.

Thanks

 

[motosapiens]

A very good article is in braumagazin.de.

that is a fantastically informative article for anyone interested in an authentic style, and it helped explain some of the results I have come to empirically. Thanks for the link.

My lighter hefeweizens have turned out extremely authentic and delcious, but I have not been as satisfied with the authenticity of my darker ones, and i think that article will help me improve them.

 

[motosapiens]

bumping this thread back up after reading braukaiser's hefeweizen guide and also the german article from braumagazin (links above). Now I have questions. Kai suggests that residual alkalinity should be close to zero for a hef. The german mag suggests it doesn't matter much and that the characteristics of the style and the ingredients are such that you can go as high as 10 german units (something like 170 ppm?) without trouble. My own experience has been that my weizens with untreated water have been quite authentic and quite tasty, using my water (179 ppm alkalinity) and a 65/35 wheat and pils/munich/vienna ratio. Adding 1/4 lb of acidulated malt didn't seem to make any noticeable difference in the final product.

so what's the deal? am i correctly understanding that these two fine resources are saying entirely different things about the acceptable alkalinity levels of the brewing water?