Heat Exchanger Recirculation

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Trindled

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Location
Ypsilanti, Michigan
I am using my copper coils in my hot liquer tank with a pump to control my mash temperature. My coils sit on the bottom of the hot liquer tank. Has anyone experienced problems with the mash liqued that is inside the coils scorching when you are doing burner runs to raise the water temperature?
 

Cape Brewing

DOH!!! Stupid brewing...
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
15,523
Reaction score
1,190
Location
Norton, MA
hmmm...

I have my coils suspended in the middle of my HLT so I can't give a definitive answer... but... I doubt it would scorch only because if you're pumping through the coil, that wort is moving too fast to pick up any real scortch. The bottom of the pan should dissipate the heat first and then any liquid around the coil will help... and then like Iw as saying... that wort is probably moving too fast.

I dunno... just my two cents... but I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you're worried, why not just suspend the coil?
 

alpo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
356
Reaction score
10
Location
Austin, TX
Maybe try circulating the water? Suspending the coils would probably be easier/cheaper
 

mrbowenz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
520
Reaction score
24
Location
Pennsylvania
Not need to worry about scorching, I assume you are using a pump while heating ?, even so , during my typical 90 mash, once my strike water is heated, the mash tun stays hot enough to temp, that the HLT only heats up twice, are you seeing the same ?
 

Cape Brewing

DOH!!! Stupid brewing...
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
15,523
Reaction score
1,190
Location
Norton, MA
Not sure why I read it this way but I think he's constantly recircing the mash. That's what I do as well... and only apply heat to the HLT in order to maintain constant temp in the MT without applying any direct heat to the MT.

My MT is pretty insulated but my burner on the HLT kicks on more than twice to keep the temp up.

Either way.... I think the short answer is, as long as your pumping the wort through and it's moving, it shouldn't scorch. If it is just sitting on the coil and then sitting on the bottom of the pot, touching the bottom... then I would think you might actually get a little scorching.
 
OP
T

Trindled

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Location
Ypsilanti, Michigan
I was not very clear. I have a temp controler with a probe in the mashtun wired to the pump. The pump only runs if the Mashtun drops below the desired temp setting. The liqued in the heat exchanger is many times static when the hot liquer tank burner is running, hence the concern of scorching.

The pump kicks on every 15 to 20 minutes during the mash to maintain the temp. There is a noticable decrease in hot liquer tank temp during the pump runs requiring turning on the burner on the Hot Liquer tank to reheat the water.

I think I will suspend the coil as a precaution.

Thanks for the feedback.
 

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
12,262
Reaction score
732
I'm setting up a ghetto HERMS right now. I will not be installing a temp control device because I want the pump to run continuously and keep the wort moving at all times. I am mashing in a cooler which keeps the temp to within 1F whatever I do that can screw me up. It will be more work and due dilligence on my part, but that is the way I'm thinking at the moment.

There is no advice or obseravtion in this post as I'm just feeling my way through my new set up. I'm just putting it out there so someone can tell me the pros and cons of not having a temp control device in the mash tun. :)
 

Cape Brewing

DOH!!! Stupid brewing...
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
15,523
Reaction score
1,190
Location
Norton, MA
I don't get what you mean by "I will not be installing a temp control device because I want the pump to run continuously and keep the wort moving at all times"

The way I have mine set up is I constantly recirc my MT... wort goes through my false bottom, into a copper manifold, out of the MT and into the side of my HLT, through a copper coil suspended in the middle of my HLT, back out the side of the HLT, up to the top of my MT and through a sparge arm back into the mash..

I then have a temp controller on my HLT... so... when the temp in the HLT drops below my desired mash temp, a burner automatically kicks on and brings the HLT back up to temp...

The theory is that you can maintain or step temps without ever applying any direct heat to the mash.

Seems to work well so far.
 

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
12,262
Reaction score
732
Yes, but the OP said that the temp controller in the mash tun switches the pump off, not the heat to the HLT. It sounds like you are doing the same thing that I am planning, keeping the flow constant at all times.
 

Cape Brewing

DOH!!! Stupid brewing...
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
15,523
Reaction score
1,190
Location
Norton, MA
Ahh... gotcha.

The one thing I really don;t know at this point since my rig is only two batches old now... is how long steps would take. I'm not sure how efficient the heat exchanger is and you don't want to jack up the temp in the HLT over your target or that defeats the purpose.

Then again... do you REALLY need to use step mashing these days with the malts that are available??
 

bull8042

I like 'em shaved
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,259
Reaction score
458
Location
Fort Mill
Ahh... gotcha.

The one thing I really don;t know at this point since my rig is only two batches old now... is how long steps would take. I'm not sure how efficient the heat exchanger is and you don't want to jack up the temp in the HLT over your target or that defeats the purpose.

Then again... do you REALLY need to use step mashing these days with the malts that are available??
I think the answer to that question is "no". Steps are really not necessary unless you find some unmodified malts somewhere.
As for the steps, I use a Chillus CFC as my heat exchanger and recirculate both water and wort constantly. The 7.2kW element in the HLT will raise the temp in 12 gal of water within a few minutes, but the HLT is MUCH slower to respond. It takes 15+ min to go from mash temps to mash-out in my system.
 

Cape Brewing

DOH!!! Stupid brewing...
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
15,523
Reaction score
1,190
Location
Norton, MA
Yeah, I have a Shirron plate chiller that I was going to use at the exchanger (still might someday) but that would require another pump and some more solenoid valves (I have freakin' nine already).... so I just mounted the coil in the HLT.

I assumed that steps would be a little tough but.. again... I'm assuming I'm not going to be doing a lot of them.
 

JayB240

Active Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
Location
Port Saint Joe
How about a better Heat Exchanger ?
I bought a heat exchanger from a neighbor who just happens to have a Heat Exchanger Company. I've been using the new exchanger all summer...... 3 to four passes will take 5 gal 200 degree wort down to 70 degrees against 48 degree well water. All stainless construction tig welded together...... A real brick

And the kicker.... Ryan's company builds all size exchangers.

http://carlsonhx.com
303-431-1180
303-431-1937

Jay

Irish Ale on tap
Dead Guy Ale on deck
Tommyknocker Imperial Brown Maple ale tomorrow
 

millaj92

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
142
Reaction score
2
Location
Plano
As for the steps, I use a Chillus CFC as my heat exchanger and recirculate both water and wort constantly. The 7.2kW element in the HLT will raise the temp in 12 gal of water within a few minutes, but the HLT is MUCH slower to respond. It takes 15+ min to go from mash temps to mash-out in my system.
This sounds like the system I am building with the only difference being I'll be using a plate chiller as a heat exchanger instead of a CFC. I'm a little confused by "The 7.2kW element in the HLT will raise the temp in 12 gal of water within a few minutes, but the HLT is MUCH slower to respond." Are you saying that although the element heats up the water in the HLT quickly, the mash temp doesn't respond similarly?
 
Top