Head retention issues

[ABV Motleybrew]

Does anyone have any ideas how I can get better head retention on more lightly hopped beers?
I've got about 30 BIAB batches under my belt so I'm not a complete noob, but I'm struggling to get good head (fnar)
The hoppy beers like IPAs arnt a problem, the foam sticks around all night! But things like lagers, kolsches, bocks, even heffes with 60% wheat just dont hold their head. I recently made a dunkelwiess with 50% wheat and the head was like pouring a glass of coke.
I've watched guys on youtube making lager from 100% pilsner and the head sticks round for ages, but when I copy the recipe I'd say mine lasts 2 minutes max!
I bottle my beer pretty fizzy (about 2.2 vol for lager & 3-3.5 for heffs), dont clean anything with detergent, dont get off flavours, tried different mash temps, different fermentation temps.... I'm at a total loss. The only way I can get good head retention is to stick loads on hops in, which ain't gunna do my helles any good.

Any suggestions?

 

[jdauria]

2.2 for a lager seems low, try upping to 2.4-2.8.

You can try adding up to 5% of Carafoam or wheat to improve head retention. You are bottling, so spunding is out...that's where you keg a beer before it's done fermenting and use the CO2 from fermentation to carbonate the beer. That leads to smaller bubbles and a stronger head. Hoppy beers in general hold a head longer because of some kind of reaction between hops and the beer.

What are you mashing your non-hoppy beers at? If you mash at 154-158 it will result in longer dextrin chains in the the finished beer, which improves head retention. Beers will not finish as low of a final gravity, so may not be as crisp as a pilsner should be, but it will improve the head retention. You could also do a 149° mash for 30 and 158 for 30 in order to finish a little drier but also build up some dextrin chains to improve it some.

Lastly, even though you don't use detergent on glasses, try the salt test...rinse your glass in hot water, shake water out, then pour salt all around the inside of the glass...it should stick evenly around the glass if the glass is beer clean, if not, use your fingers to scrub the inside of the glass with the salt, rinse with cold water, and then try again.

 

[ABV Motleybrew]

Thanks Jdauria,

Must admit my lager mashes of late have been more in the 145-150 range as I've been trying to get a good crips finish (145 was way too thin if you're wondering). I'm doing a marzen on the weekend, I'll try a 2 step mash 149 & 158 and see how it comes out

Cheers!!

 

[jdauria]

Thanks Jdauria,

Must admit my lager mashes of late have been more in the 145-150 range as I've been trying to get a good crips finish (145 was way too thin if you're wondering). I'm doing a marzen on the weekend, I'll try a 2 step mash 149 & 158 and see how it comes out

Cheers!!

Good luck, hope that helps. Yeah 145 is a little low. I usually step mash, but have done pilsners at 149 with a single infusion and have gotten nice crisp beers, but below average head retention.

 

[dmtaylor]

One word: RYE

 

[VikeMan]

Hoppy beers in general hold a head longer because of some kind of reaction between hops and the beer.

This is true. It's not really a "reaction" (in a chemical reaction sense) with the beer, but α-acids (both "regular" and isomerized) from hops promote foam stability. They do this because they are tensioactive, i.e. their structure changes the surface tension of the beer, which stabilizes the foam.

 

[ABV Motleybrew]

This is true. It's not really a "reaction" (in a chemical reaction sense) with the beer, but α-acids (both "regular" and isomerized) from hops promote foam stability. They do this because they are tensioactive, i.e. their structure changes the surface tension of the beer, which stabilizes the foam.

 

[ABV Motleybrew]

This is true. It's not really a "reaction" (in a chemical reaction sense) with the beer, but α-acids (both "regular" and isomerized) from hops promote foam stability. They do this because they are tensioactive, i.e. their structure changes the surface tension of the beer, which stabilizes the foam.

In a less technical sense this is something I'm aware of and have witnessed in my brews.
What I cant get my head round is how people can make 100% pilsner brews with little hops, no wheat, no rye, no adjuncts and still get huge fluffy long lasting heads and when I do it my head is gone in minutes. Is bottling the issue?
I used to use a 15psi pressure barrell when I started brewing and always got huge lasting foam but flat beer (I still use it for stouts as it works really well)

 

[HopSing]

I know you said you don't use detergents, but it could still be your glassware. Are you getting any lacing from IPA's that are retaining head? If not, the glasses might not be "beer clean".

https://www.kegworks.com/blog/beer-clean-glass/
Try the salt test. The salt can also be used to clean the glass a bit since it is mildly abrasive. Once you get the beer glass clean, keep it out of the dishwasher. I have a dedicated brush I use to clean my glasses. No soap is used at all.

~HopSing.

 

[ABV Motleybrew]

I know you said you don't use detergents, but it could still be your glassware. Are you getting any lacing from IPA's that are retaining head? If not, the glasses might not be "beer clean".

https://www.kegworks.com/blog/beer-clean-glass/
Try the salt test. The salt can also be used to clean the glass a bit since it is mildly abrasive. Once you get the beer glass clean, keep it out of the dishwasher. I have a dedicated brush I use to clean my glasses. No soap is used at all.

~HopSing.

To test my IPA head retention powers I've just poured one into a 500ml tulip glass, I got a 3 finger head. After an hour untouched I had half a finger and lacing all down the top of the glass that's now gone solid (and I've also now got warm beer)

 

[ABV Motleybrew]

I know you said you don't use detergents, but it could still be your glassware. Are you getting any lacing from IPA's that are retaining head? If not, the glasses might not be "beer clean".

https://www.kegworks.com/blog/beer-clean-glass/
Try the salt test. The salt can also be used to clean the glass a bit since it is mildly abrasive. Once you get the beer glass clean, keep it out of the dishwasher. I have a dedicated brush I use to clean my glasses. No soap is used at all.

~HopSing.

With regard to cleaning I wash in hot water only, the tulip glasses dont stand up in my dishwasher.

 

[John Coo's Brews]

3 and a half months later...and just checking in on a related note. Just popped the first bottle of a Westy12 clone. I've tried to be patient to give it some age, but when all the other batches were gone, I finally succumbed to the first one of this batch (and first attempt at the Westy 12). Taste-wise, I'm super-pleased. My only observation is on the head retention. Poured up nicely into a Chimay chalice, with a good 3/4" head. But it quickly disappeared and left no lacing. The Westy 12 is a high gravity, balanced hoppiness, Belgian Trappist-style ale. Could be that my glassware is not ideally clean (I hand wash, but probably not to the extent recommended for "beer clean"). Also, the mash on this one was on the lower temp side in order to provide more fermentable sugar profile and apparent attenuation. Any thoughts on whether I should be seeing more lacing/head retention on this one?

 

[Franktalk]

How vigorous is your boil? Boiling too vigorously can subject your wort to heat stress which destroys some of the heading compounds in your beer. Your boil should be a slow roll that simply moves your wort around in order to boil off unwanted volatiles like DMS. Anything hotter than that may be affecting your wort, and therefore your head, negatively.