Head retention issue

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nexy_sm

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Hi all guys,

I wanted share some doubts with you concerning head retention.
I recently btewed dry irish stout with 6 lb pale ale, 2 lb flaked barley and 1 lb roasted barley. My beer has nice head after poring but then it drops. I mashed directly in 67 degrees without protein rest. My question is why head cant stay a bit longer. Wort was obviously full with proteins, so why is head retention missing? Would have protein rest at 55 degrees helped? Would have more carbonation helped?
 
Hi,

I wash my dishes manually, so I dont know. I used Belgian Pale ale malt. I read once in strong's book that head retention can benefit from protein rest at 55 centigrade, so maybe that could have helped?
 
Hi,

I wash my dishes manually, so I dont know. I used Belgian Pale ale malt. I read once in strong's book that head retention can benefit from protein rest at 55 centigrade, so maybe that could have helped?

No, only if the malt is undermodified.

Can you do a salt scrub on your glass before the next beer? It's easy- just moisten the glass, and sprinkle table salt inside and scrub the glass with the salt all over inside and over the rim, and rinse very well.

Make sure you're not pouring into cold glasses.

Do you bottle or keg?
 
I bottle. I will try, that special way of washing. He said that short protein rest helps him improve clarity as well as head retention when using Continental malts.
 
Hello again,

so, my doubt is following.
Gordon Strong said that he performs short protein rest with German and Belgian malts at 55 degrees in order to reduce chill hase and improve head retention.
If i think logicaly, this is because those malts contain higher amount of proteins. So, if I add 15% or 20% flaked barley in my mash this defacto leads to a huge amount of proteins, which means that protein rest in upper 50s should be used for improving chill haze and head retention.
Is this right?

Cheers
 
I'm not going to convert C to F so I'm not sure what 55C is in Fahrenheit. You have to be careful when choosing a temperature for a proteolysis rest. English malt is high modified with Kolbach as high as 45. To employ a proteolysis rest with malt highly modified like some English malt is, will create a very stable beer, but one lacking head retention. If you use Weyermann's standard brewers malt, not their under modified, they recommend a 20 minute rest at 122F. You can look up their recipes and you'll notice that a proteolysis rest is used. The Kolbach/SNR of their standard brewer's malt ranges between 38 and 42. If you are using Dingemann's malt, a higher temp in the proteolytic range will work. Always refer to the data sheet that comes with the malt. There are a few things on it that will help a brewer to decide on what temperatures will be needed during the proteolysis rest.
German and Belgian malt aren't high protein malt. The protein levels are brewers standard 8 to 12 percent. The high protein malts are six row and wheat, 12 to 16 percent.

You are right, the beer was loaded with protein. When the protein dropped out, head retention and flavor goes with it. Only a certain kind of protein contributes to head retention. The process used doesn't create the needed protein.

The whole business about modern malt not needing a rest in the proteolytic range was put to bed in the late 70s by Gambrinus malting. The firm disproved what the grade school teacher that came up with the nonsense, said. The problem is, what the grade school teacher spewed out, somehow entered the homebrewing world and became gospel. Just because the English method makes no concession for a proteolysis rest or that the malt is modern, doesn't mean that the rest won't benefit the final product. The English method is limited to a single temperature conversion at a set length of time. The method allows a brewer to make beer quickly and cheaply, but at the cost of producing a product that is unstable with reduced shelf life.

I use a proteolysis rest in every batch I brew. I use the tri-decoction method with under modified malt. However, there was a time in the early 90s when I couldn't procure under modified malt. I had to use standard modified European malt. I still incorporated a rest at 122 to 125F in the first decoction and a temperature around 135F, the higher end of the proteolytic range in the main mash. I didn't shorten rest times. There were no issues with head retention. I began homebrewing in 1982 going from syrup and powder to the all grain English method. Within five years I had it with brewing. The method did not produce what I wanted in a beer. The method itself became about as interesting as watching grass grow. In 1987, I began learning about the tri-decoction method and stuck with it since that day. There is no way that the English method can create the quality and stability in beer that the tri-decoction or Schmitz method creates, regardless of the malt being used. It is enzymatically, chemically and nutrient wise impossible.
 
@VladOfTrub, this is kind of answer that I like to hear.

I wouls like to ask now following thing: if every book about (home)brewing says that protein rest with highly modified malt will produce a sort of bodyless and watery beer. Is that true or not?

What I don't like in this area of science is that orinciples are not consistent.

On the other hand, in mynext batch, I am going to use a pils malt type intended for lager brewing (I will also brew lager). I have found that total proteins is 11.5% and kolbach Index is between 35% and 40%. So, is 10-15 min long, short or acceptable rest?

Cheers!
 
I do a 131 (10 min, then a decoction) rest on pretty much every beer. If im using undermodified malt or wheat, I do it a tad lower, for longer. There are many protein enzymes and I remember reading somewhere that the a rest at 131 helps head retention, but I dont remember the source or weather it is reputable. I always have great head retention, and dont use carapils, flaked wheat, etc. The 1.040 bitter, made with marris otter, a 131-154 mash with a decoction, that I have on tap now, has a huge creamy rocky head and great lacing. This is all anecdotal though.

Then again Ive heard Gordon strong and jamil talk against doing a protein rest, and that it does nothing on modern malts, and can hurt the beer. They probably know more than I. I really should do some experiments on it.
 
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