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Hazy IPA: Interesting Observation

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Interesting observation this evening and I thought I'd share it...

I've been working on dialing in my Hazy IPA recipe for the better part of two years, brewing and tweaking every couple of months or so. The last version (recipe posted at the end of this post) was as close to perfect for my taste as possible. I brewed it on October 1 and it reached its final gravity on October 7 (I use Tilt Hydrometers - cannot recommend them enough!). It was kegged on October 12 and force carbonated by setting the regulator to the appropriate PSI for the given temperature and vigorously rocking back and forth for roughly 20 minutes. Worth noting, this batch was my first using the Clear Beer Draught Systems I'd recently ordered. Like I always do, I poured a small sample into a 6 oz. tasting glass, just to try it out, and it was so good, right out of the gates, I bet I drank 8-10 of those glasses that night alone. It seemed to peak about a week in and held for about another week or so and has slowly fallen off ever since. To the point that that each time I have poured some over the past week or so I have lamented the fact that I didn't drink it up sooner. Not bad, mind you, just a shadow of its former self. To be clear, what was falling off was the flavor. The aroma was still a complete passionfruit bomb but the flavor went from being full and round to very thin and one dimensional. One thing I noticed was that as the flavor fell off, the clarity improved. Tonight, when I poured a 1/2 pint for dinner it was crystal clear. I wish I'd taken a "BEFORE" photo. Anyhow, I pondered this for a while and wondered if the fact that any yeast or hop particulates that were once in suspension were now sitting at the bottom of the keg, and if the fact that the Clear Beer Draught System was pulling from the top of the liquid was what was causing the decline flavor. I decided to give the half-empty keg a bit of a shaking (something I have NEVER done) and then poured another glass. The pour was hazy, identical to the the first week or so, and more importantly, the flavor was back to what it was when it was at its peak. As I finish this post, I'm on my sixth pint. :) I can't quit going back for more. Not sure what the science is... but clearly the haze is a critical component of the flavor for this style.


Here it is, post shaking
TheSabbaticant.JPG


The Sabbaticant

Size: 6.5 gal

Original Gravity: 1.068
Terminal Gravity: 1.014
Color: 6.11 SRM (Morey)
Alcohol: 7.09%
Bitterness: 83.2 (Tinseth)

Ingredients:
7.0 lb (35.9%) 2-Row Malt - added during mash
7.0 lb (35.9%) Pilsner Malt (American) - added during mash
5.0 lb (25.6%) Flaked Barley - added during mash
0.5 lb (2.6%) Crystal 40L - added during mash
5.0 ea Ferm-Cap S - added during boil, boiled 70.0 m
7.0 g (2.7%) Chinook (Pellet) (13.1%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 m
1.0 ea Whirlfloc Tablets - added during boil, boiled 15.0 m
0.5 tsp Wyeast Nutrient - added during boil, boiled 15.0 m
28.0 g (10.8%) Citra (Pellet) (14.0%) - added after boil, steeped 20.0 m
28.0 g (10.8%) Galaxy (Pellet) (15.2%) - added after boil, steeped 20.0 m
28.0 g (10.8%) Vic Secret (Pellet) (18.4%) - added after boil, steeped 20.0 m
1.0 ea Wyeast WY1028 London Ale (Worthington White Shield)
28.0 g (10.8%) Citra (Pellet) (14.0%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Galaxy (Pellet) (15.2%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Vic Secret (Pellet) (18.4%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Citra (Pellet) (14.0%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Galaxy (Pellet) (15.2%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Vic Secret (Pellet) (18.4%) - added dry to primary fermenter

Mash Rest: 60.0 m @ 154.0 °F

Notes
Day 01: Pitch @ 63F
Day 03: Raise to 64F
Day 05: Raise to 66F and add 1st dry hop addition
Day 07: Raise to 68F and add 2nd dry hop addition
Day 10: Crash
Day 12: Keg & Carbonate

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 2.0.22
 

ccous

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Yup, I invert my kegs of NEIPA whenever the flavor starts to slightly fall off. Same observation as you.
 

mongoose33

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It's well known that to get the maximum flavor/aroma from IPAs that you need to drink them fresh. Those flavor/aroma compounds oxidize over time, and even if you've been excellent in limiting oxygen exposure post-fermentation, the CO2 you're using isn't pure. It's probably 99.5 percent pure, the rest is air, and of that 21 percent is oxygen.

Now, maybe the haze is related to the flavor...I wouldn't expect so, but yours and @ccous have indicated that. I have one that I've just tapped. I'll have to shake it up and see if it changes anything, but it's still fairly young.
 

Jag75

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Interesting observation this evening and I thought I'd share it...

I've been working on dialing in my Hazy IPA recipe for the better part of two years, brewing and tweaking every couple of months or so. The last version (recipe posted at the end of this post) was as close to perfect for my taste as possible. I brewed it on October 1 and it reached its final gravity on October 7 (I use Tilt Hydrometers - cannot recommend them enough!). It was kegged on October 12 and force carbonated by setting the regulator to the appropriate PSI for the given temperature and vigorously rocking back and forth for roughly 20 minutes. Worth noting, this batch was my first using the Clear Beer Draught Systems I'd recently ordered. Like I always do, I poured a small sample into a 6 oz. tasting glass, just to try it out, and it was so good, right out of the gates, I bet I drank 8-10 of those glasses that night alone. It seemed to peak about a week in and held for about another week or so and has slowly fallen off ever since. To the point that that each time I have poured some over the past week or so I have lamented the fact that I didn't drink it up sooner. Not bad, mind you, just a shadow of its former self. To be clear, what was falling off was the flavor. The aroma was still a complete passionfruit bomb but the flavor went from being full and round to very thin and one dimensional. One thing I noticed was that as the flavor fell off, the clarity improved. Tonight, when I poured a 1/2 pint for dinner it was crystal clear. I wish I'd taken a "BEFORE" photo. Anyhow, I pondered this for a while and wondered if the fact that any yeast or hop particulates that were once in suspension were now sitting at the bottom of the keg, and if the fact that the Clear Beer Draught System was pulling from the top of the liquid was what was causing the decline flavor. I decided to give the half-empty keg a bit of a shaking (something I have NEVER done) and then poured another glass. The pour was hazy, identical to the the first week or so, and more importantly, the flavor was back to what it was when it was at its peak. As I finish this post, I'm on my sixth pint. :) I can't quit going back for more. Not sure what the science is... but clearly the haze is a critical component of the flavor for this style.


Here it is, post shaking
View attachment 597731

The Sabbaticant

Size: 6.5 gal

Original Gravity: 1.068
Terminal Gravity: 1.014
Color: 6.11 SRM (Morey)
Alcohol: 7.09%
Bitterness: 83.2 (Tinseth)

Ingredients:
7.0 lb (35.9%) 2-Row Malt - added during mash
7.0 lb (35.9%) Pilsner Malt (American) - added during mash
5.0 lb (25.6%) Flaked Barley - added during mash
0.5 lb (2.6%) Crystal 40L - added during mash
5.0 ea Ferm-Cap S - added during boil, boiled 70.0 m
7.0 g (2.7%) Chinook (Pellet) (13.1%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 m
1.0 ea Whirlfloc Tablets - added during boil, boiled 15.0 m
0.5 tsp Wyeast Nutrient - added during boil, boiled 15.0 m
28.0 g (10.8%) Citra (Pellet) (14.0%) - added after boil, steeped 20.0 m
28.0 g (10.8%) Galaxy (Pellet) (15.2%) - added after boil, steeped 20.0 m
28.0 g (10.8%) Vic Secret (Pellet) (18.4%) - added after boil, steeped 20.0 m
1.0 ea Wyeast WY1028 London Ale (Worthington White Shield)
28.0 g (10.8%) Citra (Pellet) (14.0%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Galaxy (Pellet) (15.2%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Vic Secret (Pellet) (18.4%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Citra (Pellet) (14.0%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Galaxy (Pellet) (15.2%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Vic Secret (Pellet) (18.4%) - added dry to primary fermenter

Mash Rest: 60.0 m @ 154.0 °F

Notes
Day 01: Pitch @ 63F
Day 03: Raise to 64F
Day 05: Raise to 66F and add 1st dry hop addition
Day 07: Raise to 68F and add 2nd dry hop addition
Day 10: Crash
Day 12: Keg & Carbonate

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 2.0.22
That's looks sooooo good ! I'm gonna be making my first one next week . I'm gonna do a close line transfer as too keep as much oxygen out as I can
 
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harten74
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It's well known that to get the maximum flavor/aroma from IPAs that you need to drink them fresh. Those flavor/aroma compounds oxidize over time, and even if you've been excellent in limiting oxygen exposure post-fermentation, the CO2 you're using isn't pure. It's probably 99.5 percent pure, the rest is air, and of that 21 percent is oxygen.

Now, maybe the haze is related to the flavor...I wouldn't expect so, but yours and @ccous have indicated that. I have one that I've just tapped. I'll have to shake it up and see if it changes anything, but it's still fairly young.
Excellent points about freshness and oxidation. Oxygen is especially an enemy of this style making closed transfers to carefully and fully purged vessels even more critical. What was most odd to me about this batch was how quickly the flavor fell off compared to the many nearly identical versions I'd previously brewed. We're talking a perceptible drop less than two weeks after tapping. In the past that drop has taken about 2-3 that long. Thinking back, there has been a noticeable reduction in the haze that corresponded with the flavor drop off but since the timeframe was more inline with what I would expect for any hop-forward beer I never gave it much thought. The only real difference with this batch was the use of the Clear Beer Draught System. I'm loving it in the other kegs I have tapped at the moment (Belgian Dark Strong and Best Bitter) but I think I may stick with the dip tube for future NEIPA batches. And yeah, I wasn't expecting rousing the relatively minimal amount of stuff that had settled out at the bottom of the keg to make a difference but at least to my palette (and my wife's) it totally did.

BTW... I dig your keezer build. Referenced your post a few weeks ago when making plans for my own.
 

Smellyglove

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Interesting observation this evening and I thought I'd share it...

I've been working on dialing in my Hazy IPA recipe for the better part of two years, brewing and tweaking every couple of months or so. The last version (recipe posted at the end of this post) was as close to perfect for my taste as possible. I brewed it on October 1 and it reached its final gravity on October 7 (I use Tilt Hydrometers - cannot recommend them enough!). It was kegged on October 12 and force carbonated by setting the regulator to the appropriate PSI for the given temperature and vigorously rocking back and forth for roughly 20 minutes. Worth noting, this batch was my first using the Clear Beer Draught Systems I'd recently ordered. Like I always do, I poured a small sample into a 6 oz. tasting glass, just to try it out, and it was so good, right out of the gates, I bet I drank 8-10 of those glasses that night alone. It seemed to peak about a week in and held for about another week or so and has slowly fallen off ever since. To the point that that each time I have poured some over the past week or so I have lamented the fact that I didn't drink it up sooner. Not bad, mind you, just a shadow of its former self. To be clear, what was falling off was the flavor. The aroma was still a complete passionfruit bomb but the flavor went from being full and round to very thin and one dimensional. One thing I noticed was that as the flavor fell off, the clarity improved. Tonight, when I poured a 1/2 pint for dinner it was crystal clear. I wish I'd taken a "BEFORE" photo. Anyhow, I pondered this for a while and wondered if the fact that any yeast or hop particulates that were once in suspension were now sitting at the bottom of the keg, and if the fact that the Clear Beer Draught System was pulling from the top of the liquid was what was causing the decline flavor. I decided to give the half-empty keg a bit of a shaking (something I have NEVER done) and then poured another glass. The pour was hazy, identical to the the first week or so, and more importantly, the flavor was back to what it was when it was at its peak. As I finish this post, I'm on my sixth pint. :) I can't quit going back for more. Not sure what the science is... but clearly the haze is a critical component of the flavor for this style.


Here it is, post shaking
View attachment 597731

The Sabbaticant

Size: 6.5 gal

Original Gravity: 1.068
Terminal Gravity: 1.014
Color: 6.11 SRM (Morey)
Alcohol: 7.09%
Bitterness: 83.2 (Tinseth)

Ingredients:
7.0 lb (35.9%) 2-Row Malt - added during mash
7.0 lb (35.9%) Pilsner Malt (American) - added during mash
5.0 lb (25.6%) Flaked Barley - added during mash
0.5 lb (2.6%) Crystal 40L - added during mash
5.0 ea Ferm-Cap S - added during boil, boiled 70.0 m
7.0 g (2.7%) Chinook (Pellet) (13.1%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 m
1.0 ea Whirlfloc Tablets - added during boil, boiled 15.0 m
0.5 tsp Wyeast Nutrient - added during boil, boiled 15.0 m
28.0 g (10.8%) Citra (Pellet) (14.0%) - added after boil, steeped 20.0 m
28.0 g (10.8%) Galaxy (Pellet) (15.2%) - added after boil, steeped 20.0 m
28.0 g (10.8%) Vic Secret (Pellet) (18.4%) - added after boil, steeped 20.0 m
1.0 ea Wyeast WY1028 London Ale (Worthington White Shield)
28.0 g (10.8%) Citra (Pellet) (14.0%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Galaxy (Pellet) (15.2%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Vic Secret (Pellet) (18.4%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Citra (Pellet) (14.0%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Galaxy (Pellet) (15.2%) - added dry to primary fermenter
28.0 g (10.8%) Vic Secret (Pellet) (18.4%) - added dry to primary fermenter

Mash Rest: 60.0 m @ 154.0 °F

Notes
Day 01: Pitch @ 63F
Day 03: Raise to 64F
Day 05: Raise to 66F and add 1st dry hop addition
Day 07: Raise to 68F and add 2nd dry hop addition
Day 10: Crash
Day 12: Keg & Carbonate

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 2.0.22
I figured out this a few years ago and have been flipping my kegs ever since before a sitting for hazy beers. A lot of the flavor coats the yeast, is my guess, and the yeast drops out.
 
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