have you tried fermenting and serving from the same keg without transferring?

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have you tried fermenting and serving from the same keg without transferring?


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McKnuckle

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I have had bad luck with dip tube and poppet clogs, both with hops and yeast, so I am scarred. A clog would ruin the whole purpose of doing this - which is to keep the keg closed and pressurized at all times. I hate clogs!

So I've only used floating dip tubes. I have a bunch of them, at least one for each keg, so it's no big deal. I would also not recommend any travel with your kegs using this method. Stick to trub-free serving containers for those adventures.
 

DuncB

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All of mine are the kegland ones, with and without a hop filter. I'd like to find a smaller float for some of my kegs. Was hoping to use an old synthetic wine cork but haven't seen one of those for ages.
 

Brooothru

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Can someone post a link to the device that helps make liquid transfers more "debris free"? It's basically a Liquid Out keg post with two holes instead of one, and no poppet/spring. It allows you to switch out the liquid QD post on the keg for transfers and thus avoid clogged poppets (obviously the keg must be depressurized first).

Several people mentioned them in a thread sometime in the past but a forum search couldn't find the reference. I had a really slow and frustrating transfer yesterday from a fermenter to a keg to finish up the fermentation of an active beer (lots of "stuff" suspended). I think I want one of these things for my tool kit.
 

odie

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I have not had any issues yet with the full length dip tube. straight forward yeast harvest. I only have 2 bottom tube fermented kegs going right now. Both are pouring just fine.

BUT you must UNDERSTAND that my wort is pure. I run the entire kettle through a 200 micron bucket strainer so my wort is exceptionally clear and clean with zero trub or hops debris. The yeast harvest is pure yeast cake. There is nothing in the keg that can clog the dip tube or poppet.

Using a floating dip tube you should not have to worry too much about stirring it up if you are moving your keg around at a picnic. But once the keg nears empty, any hops or debris can/will cause clogs. Not an issue if you plan a full breakdown and cleaning. BUT, if you are planning to just pitch fresh wort into the keg and let it rip, well then you need to have clean wort to start with every time.
 

odie

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So what brand of floating dip tube do you all recommend?
I scored a bunch of Alibia for like 10 buck a pop...stainless ball float and silicone tubing. totally happy with them.
 

odie

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No worries about having enough viable/healthy yeast doing that? I've been thinking about doing the same but haven't gotten bold enough yet
With the bottom tube I probably got 3 solid yeast harvests off a single keg to pitch into 3 new kegs. Get like 2-3 half pint mason jars and a little short picnic tap and burp the keg into the jars, rotating and letting the foam settle and let the yeast in the keg re-settle towards the dip tube dimple, add some more again and again until they are cloudy and full. Place them in your fridge and tomorrow you should have a few jars with a nice 1/4-1/2 inch yeast cake with beer on top.
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odie

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You must either use a spunding valve, manually spund the PRV or replace with a lower psi PRV. Otherwise the pressure will continue to increase until the PRV pops around 100' Yeast can tolerate several thousand PSI but they quit replicating well below the stock PRV limit. You do want your yeast to multiply many times over.

Any method you will still want to vent the PRV down to 5-10 at most before you harvest...Even then you will get lots of foam...just let it settle and harvest more until your jar is full of beer. In a day a nice yeast cake will form.
 

EDF713

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I have not had any issues yet with the full length dip tube. straight forward yeast harvest. I only have 2 bottom tube fermented kegs going right now. Both are pouring just fine.

BUT you must UNDERSTAND that my wort is pure. I run the entire kettle through a 200 micron bucket strainer so my wort is exceptionally clear and clean with zero trub or hops debris. The yeast harvest is pure yeast cake. There is nothing in the keg that can clog the dip tube or poppet.

Using a floating dip tube you should not have to worry too much about stirring it up if you are moving your keg around at a picnic. But once the keg nears empty, any hops or debris can/will cause clogs. Not an issue if you plan a full breakdown and cleaning. BUT, if you are planning to just pitch fresh wort into the keg and let it rip, well then you need to have clean wort to start with every time.
Not entirely on topic, but I'm curious if you've noticed any differences in your finished beer with such lengths to have clear wort. I ferment in a keg and have thought about doing this to reduce trub, but wanted to know isyour finished beer is more or less clear?
 

odie

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Not enough trials to definitively answer...

Currently I have a Saison with a bottom tube. But that is a beer that is expected to not be clear.

I also have a caramel brown ale with a bottom tube. But that is a dark copper? color so hard to tell it's clarity. But I don't taste any "siltyness". But it was a couple/few pints in. It certainly is quite acceptable. I don't suspect it's pouring anymore yeast out.

I have finished beers with the floating tube ready to drink...but no open taps right now. I suspect they will be spot on after the first pull purges the floating dip tube.
 

ba-brewer

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I have always fermented clean clear trub free wort and it does not ensure a clear beer. The protein level of the grain has a lot of influence in the clarity of the beer and to certain degree how fast you chill the wort after the boil. With enough time most beers clear up but if you use grain that is below 10% protein the process is much faster.
 

EDF713

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Not enough trials to definitively answer...

Currently I have a Saison with a bottom tube. But that is a beer that is expected to not be clear.

I also have a caramel brown ale with a bottom tube. But that is a dark copper? color so hard to tell it's clarity. But I don't taste any "siltyness". But it was a couple/few pints in. It certainly is quite acceptable. I don't suspect it's pouring anymore yeast out.

I have finished beers with the floating tube ready to drink...but no open taps right now. I suspect they will be spot on after the first pull purges the floating dip tube.
I hear you, that first pull with the floating diptube is pretty rowdy. I recently got a steel mesh hop spider, next batch I'm going to try to recirculate through it to see if that can clear up the wort similar to your bucket strainer. Other than the occasional hazy I brew stuff that I want to be clear.
 

EDF713

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I have always fermented clean clear trub free wort and it does not ensure a clear beer. The protein level of the grain has a lot of influence in the clarity of the beer and to certain degree how fast you chill the wort after the boil. With enough time most beers clear up but if you use grain that is below 10% protein the process is much faster.
I've read anecdotally that having some trub can help make the finished beer more clear, which is why I asked. Since I've never made a trub free beer I'm curious what I'll see.
 

DuncB

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On topic of beer clearing and removing the yeast, my observation of my fermentasaurus is that with yeast in the collection bottle at the bottom, even when the ferment is over there still seems to be some activity from the yeast. This is seen as small bubble ring on surface ( fermenter is at 12 celsius ), beer doesn't clear that well. Once I drop that yeast out so there is very little left, ( ie just suspended to settle ) final clearing can occur spontaneously.
 

odie

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I have always fermented clean clear trub free wort and it does not ensure a clear beer. The protein level of the grain has a lot of influence in the clarity of the beer and to certain degree how fast you chill the wort after the boil. With enough time most beers clear up but if you use grain that is below 10% protein the process is much faster.
clean clear wort in the fermenter has nothing to do with getting finished clear beer. It's about getting a nice clean yeast cake when fermentation is done so your yeast harvest is clean and does not need to be "washed" to remove trub, hops, or any other particulate that was in the brew kettle.
 

odie

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I recently got a steel mesh hop spider, next batch I'm going to try to recirculate through it to see if that can clear up the wort similar to your bucket strainer. Other than the occasional hazy I brew stuff that I want to be clear.
I don't think that will be as effective. I seriously doubt those hop spiders, or any SS mesh strainer is as tight at a bucket strainer. Those need to flow at a very high rate and are ready designed to contain hole hops which are quite large.

As far as "hazy beer"...super clear wort in the fermenter is not related to clear finished beer IMO. I strain my hefe and saison wort too and the finished beer has that "hazy"...it's a function of the yeast, cold crashing and any finings/gelatin that you may use after fermentation.
 

odie

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On topic of beer clearing and removing the yeast, my observation of my fermentasaurus is that with yeast in the collection bottle at the bottom, even when the ferment is over there still seems to be some activity from the yeast. This is seen as small bubble ring on surface ( fermenter is at 12 celsius ), beer doesn't clear that well. Once I drop that yeast out so there is very little left, ( ie just suspended to settle ) final clearing can occur spontaneously.
I think there is always some live yeast still in suspense, even after a cold crash. How else can you bottle with a little sugar and get carbonation?
 

DuncB

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I think there is always some live yeast still in suspense, even after a cold crash. How else can you bottle with a little sugar and get carbonation?
I'm sure there is yeast left, but before I get rid of the bulk of yeast that isn't suspended it doesn't clear well spontaneously at the temperature I mentioned. It can / does do after that bulk yeast is removed.

I can bottle with no sugar and get carbonation with a counter pressure bottling but I agree I have got the clearest of beers and ciders to bottle condition with the addition of a fermentable.
 

lablover

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So what brand of floating dip tube do you all recommend?
I used the Top Draw from Williams for my first and found that it was too light at the tip and I had to weight it down with a SS nut. If you buy one of those, make sure you weight it down right out of the box. All my others are from www.ballandkeg.com and they work great. They seem to have a heavier piece of SS tubing at the floating end so they stay submerged. I've also read that the Torpedo Keg dip tubes also have issues with floating so I'd avoid those as well.
 

Murph4231

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I'm experimenting with a new idea for harvesting yeast. Once the keg starts to build pressure, I hookup a short jumper line from the liquid (floating dip tube) to a 16-oz PET soda bottle fitted with a carbonation cap. So far so good. I figure I'm top-cropping the most active yeast, without opening the fermentation vessel.
Please post your results for this yeast harvesting technique. It definitely sounds interesting.
 

Murph4231

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You must either use a spunding valve, manually spund the PRV or replace with a lower psi PRV. Otherwise the pressure will continue to increase until the PRV pops around 100' Yeast can tolerate several thousand PSI but they quit replicating well below the stock PRV limit. You do want your yeast to multiply many times over.

Any method you will still want to vent the PRV down to 5-10 at most before you harvest...Even then you will get lots of foam...just let it settle and harvest more until your jar is full of beer. In a day a nice yeast cake will form.
You're spit on @odie , harvested yeast your way many times in the past. Prior to Conicals that was the easiest and best way to collect yeast.
 

DuncB

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Please post your results for this yeast harvesting technique. It definitely sounds interesting.
This is how I do it


But I do stand the bottle up in the back of the fridge when doing it, but couldn't get the photo with it in that position.

This is set up to harvest the blowoff that goes up the gas line. But you could use the same setup if you wanted to collect some of the yeast filled top beer by connecting to the liquid line.
 

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Jako

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exactly my thoughts...definitely wanna try this ferment and serve thing...
its worked decently for me so far. my only issue is the beer taking a while to drop clear but that's my issue rushing beer to the tap.
 

Jako

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This is how I do it


But I do stand the bottle up in the back of the fridge when doing it, but couldn't get the photo with it in that position.

This is set up to harvest the blowoff that goes up the gas line. But you could use the same setup if you wanted to collect some of the yeast filled top beer by connecting to the liquid line.
that is awesome! love the idea
 

odie

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its worked decently for me so far. my only issue is the beer taking a while to drop clear but that's my issue rushing beer to the tap.
That's my concern too. I got so floating dip tubes to try. But then I cannot harvest any yeast :( So my thoughts are now to just store the newly empty kegs cold until I can dump fresh wort into them and reuse the yeast that way. But it would only be one beer at a time and not multiple yeast harvests from a single keg.
 

cmac62

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That's my concern too. I got so floating dip tubes to try. But then I cannot harvest any yeast :( So my thoughts are now to just store the newly empty kegs cold until I can dump fresh wort into them and reuse the yeast that way. But it would only be one beer at a time and not multiple yeast harvests from a single keg.
You can pour the slurry into jars once the keg kicks and keep that in the fridge, takes up way less space this way. It has been in the fridge the whole time it was being served should be no diff. :mug:
 

odie

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You can pour the slurry into jars once the keg kicks
well the desire is to harvest the yeast without opening the keg...keeps it all sealed and sanitary...The bottom tube makes that easy but the issue of getting clear beer is one of being very gentle with keg handling and such.

If I could "catch" the keg just as the floating dip tube starts picking up the yeast cake...I guess I could pull the keg and shake the yeast cake up and pop a couple yeast samples out into a small jar before it's completely blows. Save those yeasts for another day and then pitch fresh wort on whatever is left in the keg.

It's all theoretical at this point as I'm experimenting with various techniques...
 

balrog

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One more data point:
I have one of the Williams Top Draw, I have one of the Clear Draught, and I have made 3 of the DIY at Think.Genius.
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THey all work fine. I can't say I have a preference. Getting the tubing length "just right" is the only part of the DIY that took some trial with water.

And making sure the wire held only to the pickup short diptube and float without coming disconnected :p
 

DuncB

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Is that float 51 mm wide 61 long with a 15mm hole ?

Website link doesn't give dimensions but does have those figures associated with it.

I'm after a much smaller float that can fit thru the top of some vessels that only have a hole 38mm wide. Wanting to use a synthetic cork but can't find any wine that has these anymore.
 

balrog

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Is that float 51 mm wide 61 long with a 15mm hole ?

Website link doesn't give dimensions but does have those figures associated with it.

I'm after a much smaller float that can fit thru the top of some vessels that only have a hole 38mm wide. Wanting to use a synthetic cork but can't find any wine that has these anymore.
that is the size of the ones I bought, yes
 

odie

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My first keg ferment keg kicked yesterday. What was still inside surprised me.

I fermented with the full length dip tube. I also harvested a few yeast batches out of the keg before drinking it. I figured the keg would have been well purged of yeast by now. But no, there was a significant amount of residual yeast in the bottom of the keg when it kicked. And the beer had been pouring pretty clear. My guess is that the remaining yeast had compacted down tightly at the bottom so that only the yeast right next to the tube pick up got drawn off. The rest of the bottom yeast outside of the dip tube dimple stayed compacted and in place.

If I have a batch of fresh wort ready I could have just dumped it in on the yeast cake.
 

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