Has workplace etiquette changed?

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Andrea

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Jul 24, 2009
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Am I behind? Has the workplace etiquette changed on contacting someone on their day off or do I just work with crazy?

So instead of lay someone off, we all took substantial cuts in our hours at work. Not the best but hey-- I still have a job. But driving me crazy with calling or expecting me to come in on the days I am not paid to work anymore. I work with kids and families so if there is a crisis and I can help I give a few hours regardless of the day of the week or my hours. But I know I am giving the hours away....

It is a different situration when they schedule meetings on my day off and then there are the phone calls every weekday I am not working. Phone calls to relay non essential messages or ask about paperwork or catch up on stuff that should already be done....

Then I don't come in on my days off or return phone calls (I have managed another money making enterprise in my unpaid two days off)-- and I am called unprofessional or rude. Whereas I think it is unprofessional to contact someone when they are not working and not even in the ofice to answer questions about paperwork in the office!

Of course there are a host of other problems that probably lead to us all being on austerity hours-- but this is killing me right now!
 
Forcing you to work without pay is illegal. Document every single time they ask you and/or you work it and also who says what to whom ... every time. That way, if you do stand up for yourself and they fire you, you have at least some avenue of recourse.

There is a pact, an agreement within reasonable terms, that an employee and an employer enter into when hired. It does not have to be written ... though if it is you should obviously keep it on file for yourself. The "unspoken" part of that agreement, and also the way they interpret your job description, has to be within reason. There are limits to this.
If push comes to shove, this is something that you might further ask an attorney about. Some attorneys will give you a "thumbnail" impression of your circumstances over the phone. Calling a few of them might give you some concrete insight as to the situation.

Determine your limits in advance ... and do not set precedent by acquiescing to demands which do not fit the reasonable limits you've established for yourself. Often the problem is related to just one moron in management. Whether one or two people ... or an entire culture ... be firm and hopefully they will get the message.

Ask ... repeatedly if necessary... that they communicate non essential information to you by email. Not by your phone.

It is not a matter of them having bad etiquette.
It is partially bad management practices. Partially the economy. And partially the fact that people will try to take advantage of you when they can; and you can not rely upon "the better angels" of other peoples nature.
 
I am assuming you are an hourly employee. If so, when they call you, you need to simply tell them you do NOT work for free. It takes some gumption to do this, but you are being taken advantage of, and you are letting them.
 
Forcing you to work without pay is illegal. Document every single time they ask you and/or you work it and also who says what to whom ... every time. That way, if you do stand up for yourself and they fire you, you have at least some avenue of recourse.

Yeah, this. Calling you to come in is fine so long as they pay you. If they aren't, they are breaking the law and you need to keep records for the inevitable sh*tstorm that will follow this type of practice if it continues long enough. Also note that if you are working over 40 hours and hourly, they need to be paying you time and a half most places.
 
First it depends on if your hourly or salary. Sadly, if your salary, your kinda SOL. Thats just the nature of the beast. However, if your hourly, then it is flat out illegal. Having been an HR manager, I can tell you, you cant work without getting paid for it. You cant even take work related phone calls. Meaning you cant discuss work over the phone. Only to clear up any minor issues or deal with scheduling or such. In some cases, you cant even be bothered while you are on a verifiable, approved break. Any harrassment they may give you about such events, especially ones in which they are trying to bully you or intimidate you is illegal and considered harrassment. You should goto your state employment commission and explain to them, with any documentation, what is going on.
 
Andrea do you happen to be working for the military as a civilian contractor? The reason I ask is because my wife took a job as a civilian contractor for the Navy. They expected her to act as a miltary member, get called into work, called on the phone at home, work late and even expected her to be 'on duty' some weekends. No extra pay for any of this. The military work that way and some of them don't understand why this an out of the question request for civilians.
 
Andrea do you happen to be working for the military as a civilian contractor? The reason I ask is because my wife took a job as a civilian contractor for the Navy. They expected her to act as a miltary member, get called into work, called on the phone at home, work late and even expected her to be 'on duty' some weekends. No extra pay for any of this. The military work that way and some of them don't understand why this an out of the question request for civilians.

No I work for a nonprofit but looks just like that! No cool uniform or benefits though..

I am now supposed to be an hourly employee with a much reduced work hours tied to grant reductions. I have set my limits and conveyed them in I assume a reasonable manner-- but my fault is that I do respond to emergency situations like I am still a salaried employee.

I stick to my limits about not working when it is not essential job function and I take flex time for some of my outside hours. I just do not like the complaining and insulting comments -- I am documenting them. I just need to hang on until I can find another opportunity....
 
Good for you! My wife doesn't work as a Navy contractor anymore, she spent most of her career in HR which is why I couldn't believe she put up with the crap she did. She has a pretty strong personality and still let them run her over. Stick to you guns Andrea.

Good luck!
 
We have a strict unwritten rule that you don't bother someone on their off time for work related issues. Off time is for family, relaxation, or brewing beer. If you are hourly, they should not be bothering you on your off time.
 
My wife gets called several times/day on her days off with questions on how to do something, procedural issues, and to help out with things that other employees are too lazy to figure out. her solution was to ignore the phone calls, texts and emails.

She finally confronted her boss about the problem and said that if she was that needed on her days off, to put her on the schedule for those days and pay her to come in, otherwise F-off and stop the calling.
 
Somedays I just sit and quietly consider which of my guns would be the best to bring...
I know it will get better-- I have a good reputation and sooner or later something else will come up and I will know more about avoiding a soul-sucking organization who just sticks pictures of kids on the brochures to look good!
 
So the question begs to be asked. What happened?

EDIT: the post below was deleted by me because I somehow double posted.
 
Somedays I just sit and quietly consider which of my guns would be the best to bring...

The encouragement to stick to your guns singled out no specific firearm(s). Take 'em all!!

But seriously, I tend to think you are comepletely justified in your stance. I would contact HR and/or a lawyer immediately.
 
The encouragement to stick to your guns singled out no specific firearm(s). Take 'em all!!

But seriously, I tend to think you are comepletely justified in your stance. I would contact HR and/or a lawyer immediately.

+1

Scary to do, but who will do if you don't?
 
A former coworker of mine went through the same thing as this. He was an hourly employee who got called a LOT in his off time. He told the company that he wanted to be paid ten minutes for each phone call. When they refused, he submitted an expense report for his cell phone bill. They also refused that so he stopped answering his phone and only responded to messages that he deemed worthy, which were very few. After a few weeks, they tried to write him up for it, so he showed them the business card of his attorney.

Predictably, the paperwork disappeared pretty quickly, but his life at work was much more difficult for the next few months. Everything he did was scrutinized. But eventually it blew over and he didn't get called unless it really was necessary.

But the same company also took away paid lunch breaks, then tried to write up anyone who left company property to go get lunch. That didn't get too far either.
 
Why not just ignore the phone calls? That's what I do. I am off of work and honestly I don't even hear my phone half the time family and friends call. If they have an issue and requested that I make myself more available to answer calls then I would tell them i need to be paid for that.

I think its important to establish the work and home life boundary. Once you answer calls frequently then they just expect it all the time. Hell, occasionally my boss or coworkers will call my cell while I am at work...I try to not answer, my office phone is where I should be contacted for office issues.
 
In 2009 at the place I used to work we went to a 4 day work week. We got some unemployment compensation called work share. It paid us 80% of what we would have gotten for the 5th day.

My boss said that we should have worked for no pay from the company since we were getting money paid by the state. We just ignored him.

Besides that we told him that was unethical since we were getting compensated because, supposedly, there was not enough work to employ us for 5 days.
 
You say the company you work for decided to reduce hours instead of laying people off. Well, I agree what they ask is wrong and legally they can't do it but be careful how you handle the situation. May come a time they need to lay people off and I bet in most cases the ones who tell them to F off when they call needing help during off hours will be the ones to go first. They will never use that as the reason, but they don't have to either. What I am getting at is if they just call you once in a while to ask where a file is or what you did with something you are better off helping out. Now if they want you to come into the office and work that is different.

Another question to ask is are there others not answering the phone during off hours etc.? There always seems to be at least one guy who will and even maybe come in now and then to help out even if he is not getting paid. Unless he/she is a poor employee otherwise, you can bet they won't be the one to get laid off.

Just something to think about..seen it play out that way before.
 
The problem is not that I am taking the calls or complying with the f'edu scheduling-- I am not. But they honestly call my house-yep!, and my (personal nonwork)cell phone. So my work home boundaries are not being respected. The worst offenders are the administrative assistant and the executive director and the worst of the actions so far are the "mean girls" kinda of comments that I am not a team player or a good worker or even a good person. Nothing is is writing yet that I know--- but the passive agressive "retribution" is putting me on edge! And today is Monday so I am going in to reap my ration of" why did not you call" and "don't you care?"

But for my actual work with families and kids-- I take the call on my cell and I am ok with this.

Document document document and keep looking for another job...
 
Honestly, in my opinion it varies from industry to industry. I work hourly in the Consulting Engineering industry and if I get a call on my day off (never happens, but on some super rare occasions) I answer it. As I move up through this company I will get more and more calls outside of the office and I will answer them. This is a strictly client based industry and having clients wait on you or potentially being upset could put the company out of business.

From what I can tell about your situation, it appears they don't understand the difference between an hourly employee and salary employee. It also appears they don't understand the definition of "professional." I would do what others have suggested and keep it documented. In case for some reason it comes down on you on paper, you have proof they bothered you outside of work hours. It also couldn't hurt to have a look at your employee handbook, as I imagine what it says in there will only be on your side.
 
I agree with steve. Check the employee handbook. It's pretty unprofessional of them to complain when you don't answer on your own free time. If one of my coworkers is off, I have no problem calling them if I have a question. But if they don't answer then I see it as my problem for not knowing something I should know.

Is this stuff that they could or should know on their own?
 
The worst offenders are the administrative assistant and the executive director and the worst of the actions so far are the "mean girls" kinda of comments that I am not a team player or a good worker or even a good person. Nothing is is writing yet that I know--- but the passive agressive "retribution" is putting me on edge!

If it is the office of the Executive Director, the situation is absolutely, 100%, NOT going to improve. You are not going to change that person and even if you make such a stink that they do change, you will be resented and targeted for it.

Do not delude yourself.
What they are doing is ingrained into their corporate culture all the way up to the office of the Director.

It's over; done. And its effects on you are going to get worse.

It sounds like the "worst of the actions" is not just "mean girls" comments, but all the other scheduling and intrusion into your privacy issues that you mentioned, too.

While there is a careful weighing to do of the benefits of where you work now versus the downsides, it sounds like you are miserable and not being respected, both as an employee and as a person.

You need to be in a full court press to get into another company ... more than what you are doing now.
As is frequently said, it is much, much easier to get another job while you are still in a job.
Get your resume redone and really hit it hard. Make SURE that you use the word "in confidence" in your cover letters (e.g. "I am submitting my resume to you, in confidence, for ...") ... meaning to the HR at where you are applying to, that you do not want them calling your current employer and telling them they are making inquiries regarding an application received. Make sure that when asked as to how quick you can start you indicate you need to give your current employer at least 2 weeks notice.
Make sure to have a well-thought-out reason that has nothing to do with problems as to why you are leaving your current employer. The reason of having "plateaued" in your position is a possibility *provided that* the similar position at the new company reasonably has additional advancement potential (be careful) ... admiration for your prospective employer ... fear of impending layoffs specific to your current employer ... desire for better (health care etc) benefits ... etc. Like I say, be careful - but have it ready. And regardless of how frustrated you get at your current employer, don't tip your hand and insinuate (or admit) you are considering leaving.

Like Warren Buffet said, "Life is too short to work with people who turn your stomach".

Now is the time to act.
 
Thanks JacobMarley

I actually love what my job is supposed to be....

But I know I have to go! Posted while working on my resume again.

The other harder thing I need to do is re evaluate my job choices, as in there are not many jobs and not reasonable pay. And a noble mission for a nonprofit does not mean they treat their people well.

So the answer is yes I work for crazy and I need to go before I become a member of crazy

Thank you all and going away now to work on a Rye on my day off..
 
Andrea do you happen to be working for the military as a civilian contractor? The reason I ask is because my wife took a job as a civilian contractor for the Navy. They expected her to act as a miltary member, get called into work, called on the phone at home, work late and even expected her to be 'on duty' some weekends. No extra pay for any of this. The military work that way and some of them don't understand why this an out of the question request for civilians.

<- civilian contractor and former military guy

contractors are just like employees of a normal civilian company. I work 40hrs/week because that's what my contract will pay....anything beyond that has to be approved and i get paid for it. If my phone rings for any reason after hours, my clock is ticking.

on the other hand....if she's salary, she's screwed.
 
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