Has anyone here gone pro?

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

I’d like to hear your story. What was it like? Were you successful? I’m considering taking the leap. I’ve only been brewing for a little over a year, but everyone that drinks my beer says it at least as god if not better, than any beer they’ve bought. What does it actually take to go from the home brew level to professional? Is it worth it?

 

[Rob2010SS]

I’d like to hear your story. What was it like? Were you successful? I’m considering taking the leap. I’ve only been brewing for a little over a year, but everyone that drinks my beer says it at least as god if not better, than any beer they’ve bought. What does it actually take to go from the home brew level to professional? Is it worth it?

Im interested in this as well. My wife and i have been talking about it and going through a guide on branding a brewery. Once the branding is decided, then comes the decision to do it or not...

 

[Bamos6928]

Check out the E-book "A Good Hobby Mashed" the user Formerlymondoman wrote it and it is a very interesting read about opening your own brewery. Not really a "how to" kinda thing but really gives you an idea of some of the headaches and BS that you may have to go through.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yes.

I don't know enough about or care enough about business so rather than opening my own I went the hired gun route. I like not worrying about sales, marketing, accounting, payroll, fundraising, plus none of the debt and none of the risk, and much less stress.

Downside is low pay compared to other jobs, and giving up some control. And unless you're in a very large facility with a big enough crew for shifts, it can be LONG hours, often without OT.

Plus even as a head brewer, unless a small one man show you STILL spend more of your time looking at spreadsheets than actually brewing (your crew does that).

I've taken a liking to shift brewing at larger places. Can be VERY hard to get your foot in the door without prior experience and/or (usually "and") a brewing degree. Little creative control apart from occasional pilot batch, but zero stress, just brewing.

Took years of rejections and getting strung along to get there.

And I'll say, if you've only been brewing a year and relying on biased input of friends and family, you aren't ready.

The exception is if you have a REAL mind for business and a pool of money to burn, and you're willing to let go and do the responsible thing and hire a seasoned pro to run your brewhouse. I don't even necessarily mean someone who's been a head brewer for years. There's a consulting company that only (or almost only) recommends hiring of 2nd/3rd rung folks with experience, who tend to be more hungry and less stuck in their ways than folks who've gotten used to being the big dog and stuck up about it. But then you're just running a business, not brewing. That may not be what you want.

I will say with that latter case, I've seen too many breweries with competent brewers f*** it up because a homebrewing-a-couple-years owner thought they knew better and insisting on overruling the brewer.

Hire someone who knows more than you, and trust them.

That's my 2c.

 

[augiedoggy]

Working on it... still not open, Our current delay is the fact that we had to hire an engineer to say its ok to use an ac unit with a coolbot for our cooler.(AC units are NOT UL listed for refrigeration BTW)... just like 5 other breweries withing 40 minutes of us use... Theres plenty of crap that makes it no fun but im hoping that changes when we finally open soon. The powers that be have been cracking down on the breweries lately too it seems. They have changed a lot of rules in the last year alone making it more difficult for the little guy without a lot of money. for eaxample they told us we had to change our license from a microbrewery to a brewpub because we are serving from kegs in a walkin cooler instead of kegs directly behind the bar... this wasnt the case a year ago.

We have a 3 barrel electric system and a small brewpub we will be serving other local wine and cider along with our beer and a small food menu.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Working on it... still not open, Our current delay is the fact that we had to hire an engineer to say its ok to use an ac unit with a coolbot for our cooler.(AC units are NOT UL listed for refrigeration BTW)... just like 5 other breweries withing 40 minutes of us use... Theres plenty of crap that makes it no fun but im hoping that changes when we finally open soon. The Feds have been cracking down on the breweries lately too. they have changed a lot of rules in the last year alone.

We have a 3 barrel electric system and a small brewpub we will be serving other local wine and cider along with our beer and a small food menu.

That's an understatement. Fed, state, and local regs to comply with. And they don't always agree. And with FSMA it's gotten a lot more complicated on the fed level.

Definitely want legal consultation.

 

[augiedoggy]

That's an understatement. Fed, state, and local regs to comply with. And they don't always agree.

Definitely want legal consultation.

Yes now it seems due to the fact that New York is a democrat run state and the republicans are in power the local and federal rules sometimes counter dict each other... its nuts.

If I had one piece of advice to give I'd say GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING including the ok from the city and inspectors. We have been delayed for months now because the building inspector gave us the verbal ok on our coolbot controlled walkin cooler using a 25k lg ac unit in our basement after a bunch of conversations and a walk through back in january but all the sudden He doesnt "recall the conversation" and now we are dealing with a different inspector who wants a stamped ok from a licensed engineer. Had we known this back in January we would have done things differently.

It varies VERY MUCH what works in one city vs the one next store so do your homework.

We eve made the mistake of making our facebook page live before the lawyer filed our tradmark request on our name and a Scab in California filed a trademark on our name the very monday after the friday our page went live, Then waited almost a year and sent us a message telling us to stop using the name. luckily we were already a licensed llc under the name long before then and since we are already doing business under the name (selling t shirts so far) we have an advantage. this guy just takes advantage of the law and trademarks others names he has no intention of using to extort them for money down the road. Apparently its a legal profession!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yes now it seems due to the fact that New York is a democrat run state and the republicans are in power the local and federal rules sometimes counter dict each other... its nuts.

If I had one piece of advice to give I'd say GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING including the ok from the city and inspectors. We have been delayed for months now because the building inspector gave us the verbal ok on our coolbot controlled walkin cooler using a 25k lg ac unit in our basement after a bunch of conversations and a walk through back in january but all the sudden He doesnt "recall the conversation" and now we are dealing with a different inspector who wants a stamped ok from a licensed engineer. Had we known this back in January we would have done things differently.

It varies VERY MUCH what works in one city vs the one next store so do your homework.

We eve made the mistake of making our facebook page live before the lawyer filed our tradmark request on our name and a Scab in California filed a trademark on our name the very monday after the friday our page went live, Then waited almost a year and sent us a message telling us to stop using the name. luckily we were already a licensed llc under the name long before then and since we are already doing business under the name (selling t shirts so far) we have an advantage.

All exemplifying why I don't want to run the business/branding side.

I'll pay you $50 if you can come up with a hop-pun IPA name that doesn't risk a C&D letter.

 

[augiedoggy]

Also its worth pointing out that a business model that works in one area may not work in another.. for example, Ive seen a lot of people on the probrewer forum who thought they could just make a 1.5 barrel homebrewing system into a business... if you are sucessful with this its because your in an area with no inspections or you built a safe sanitary setup and your selling all your beer onsite. Dont expect to make money distributing alone this way or even with a 3 barrel setup, bars will only pay so much for a keg and you cant compete with those contract brewing on massive commercial scales who try go through a distributor who doesnt play nice with bars that dont buy everything through them.

We will only be selling our beer onsite and in growlers to go and even then expect to possibly be brewing multiple times a week. thats were your biggest profit margin is by far. Think about it.. a 1/2 keg has 124 pints in it with no waste. thats roughly $620 if you sell $5 pints.... If you distribute that same keg you might get what? $130? Realistically these numbers are lower due to growler fills and flights as well as waste. the best figures I could find on actual production costs for many smaller breweries is about 75 cent-$1 per pint... I dont know how true that is since we still arent open.

Also do you like going to breweries that dont have any food? how about breweries that are out of everything but a couple styles? what do you have for the spouse that doesnt like beer? Ive had many owners tell me they couldnt expand their capacity fast enough and had to brew multiple times a day which is a lot of work. Plan accordingly.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Nothing wrong with multiple brews a day, let alone a week. But need to be set up for it and that means good business plan and more upfront funding and risk (if you don't meet numbers you screw yourself). But the more you produce per batch decreases your cost per batch significantly. However, it's easier to expand cellar than brewhouse. So most breweries undersize the system to save money.

I will say though, trying to crank out more than you have capacity to produce and overselling yourself in the market is a crap position to be in, and starting small without a resolution to stay small means you'll fight that battle constantly and it sucks the life out of you.

Now, a 1.5bbl nano tap room producing 100 bbl/yr and a 30+ bbl production facility cranking 15k bbl/yr are very different monsters with different considerations. I've never worked on the nano scale.

 

[TwistedGray]

There is a thread on here of a member that went pro; I'd recommend finding that one (use the search tool up top). I'm too lazy to search for you, but it's there.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

And I'll say, if you've only been brewing a year and relying on biased input of friends and family, you aren't ready.

+1

The painful truth is that most friends don't know diddly squat about beer. I've had batches that i knew werent quite right yet friends will tell you how good it is etc etc etc

 

[idylldon]

And I'll say, if you've only been brewing a year and relying on biased input of friends and family, you aren't ready.

This.

The rest is irrelevant for now. Hire somebody who knows the ropes in the brewhouse or get more years/study under your belt and wait for the market reset, which is coming. At that point, you'll be able to pick up equipment a lot cheaper and you will hopefully have the experience, recipes, time, and money to jump in. Until then, keep it as a hobby. I could write a book about opening our brewpub but there are already enough books out there. (I did post quite a bit during the construction phase on our FB page, which is "Idyllwild Brewpub," so you can read that if you want to get an idea about our journey.) The books you should be reading are the textbooks about brewing because it's all about the beer and your journey will be unique to you and your project. Yes, there are some generalities that apply across the board, but there are more things that will be distinctly yours, especially when it comes to dealing with the local, state, and federal government stuff.

Before I turned pro, I had been brewing about 25 years, wrote for Brewing Techniques magazine back in the 90s, and had won some awards (even a best in show for a Tripel). I also have a degree in microbiology and have an extensive brewing library that I've read cover to cover. Even after all of this, I was SCARED when the time came to start brewing and charging people for my beer. I can't even begin to explain the level of stress; in fact, I missed our grand opening because I was in the ER with stress-induced atrial fibrillation. Yeah, I'm wound pretty tight naturally and have gone through a lot of stressful situations in my 63 years, but this was well beyond anything I had experienced before, even other business start ups.

Successful? Well, we brew just under 500BBL/year and all of it is sold on premises since our liquor license prohibits us from filling growlers or distributing unless we use a distributor, which I won't do since there's no money in it at our production level. At this point, we have 21 house-brewed beers on tap and always have one or two waiting for a tap. I have never lost a batch and we have sold everything we've brewed. Are all of the beers world class? No, but they're clean and tasty, and folks seem to like them since they pay for them and come back again and again. I continually tweak the recipes until I get a final version for our system. Of the 30+ styles of beer I have brewed here, I probably have solid final recipes for over 1/2 of them. I guess that's some measure of success.

I've been involved in this pub now for over six years and while there are things I'm dead tired of, the actual brewing of beer isn't one of them. I still get excited the night before a brew day and I hope that never ends. When it does, well, I'm old enough to retire and that's what I'll probably do.

Cheers,
--
Don
Head Brewer / Partner
Idyllwild Brewpub

 

[Qhrumphf]

I still get excited the night before a brew day and I hope that never ends. When it does, well, I'm old enough to retire and that's what I'll probably do.

Nail on the head. (Not that everything else wasn't spot on either)

Making brewing a job makes it a job. It means stress. Headaches. And hard work. On the business side you'll put your entire life at stake in an industry where very few get a big payout.

On the production side it's hard, physical, and dangerous work. Culture of safety in a manufacturing facility is paramount, but things will happen. You're not a brewer until you've experienced the joy of concentrated PAA on your skin somehow getting around the PPE.

Add in that, if you're not an owner, still having possible dick bosses (that was my last gig), and customers you can't please (oh your NEIPA tastes and smells like mango juice but is only slightly hazy and doesn't look like mud? 1 star).

And on top of that, an increasingly crowded, competitive, cutthroat marketplace.

It's not all fun and games.

However, at the end of the day I still wake up loving what I do (I went pro back in 2014).

If I ask myself what I'd be doing with an unlimited income so I didn't have to work, the answer is brewing beer. So I know I'm on the right path.

 

[Rob2010SS]

And I'll say, if you've only been brewing a year and relying on biased input of friends and family, you aren't ready.

+1

The painful truth is that most friends don't know diddly squat about beer. I've had batches that i knew werent quite right yet friends will tell you how good it is etc etc etc

You're right, most friends don't. However, the same can be said for a majority of craft beer drinkers. I have a friend who recently went to Florida and he had a beer that he loved and was describing it to me. He started telling me about how it was really good but had a weird buttery flavor. Sounded a lot like diacetyl to me! But he loved it. He had no clue that there may be something wrong with it. In my opinion most craft beer drinkers don't know enough about beer to pick up on stuff like that

 

[Qhrumphf]

You're right, most friends don't. However, the same can be said for a majority of craft beer drinkers. I have a friend who recently went to Florida and he had a beer that he loved and was describing it to me. He started telling me about how it was really good but had a weird buttery flavor. Sounded a lot like diacetyl to me! But he loved it. He had no clue that there may be something wrong with it. In my opinion most craft beer drinkers don't know enough about beer to pick up on stuff like that

While I don't disagree with you, that's not a sound basis to justify going pro before one is ready.

 

[Rob2010SS]

While I don't disagree with you, that's not a sound basis to justify going pro before one is ready.

Oh absolutely, I'm not saying it was. I was just pointing out that most ppl drinking beer don't know much about it. I do agree that rushing into going pro is not a good idea.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

He started telling me about how it was really good but had a weird buttery flavor. Sounded a lot like diacetyl to me! But he loved it. He had no clue that there may be something wrong with it. In my opinion most craft beer drinkers don't know enough about beer to pick up on stuff like that

This is exactly what i mean. I would include friends/craft beer drinkers in this category. Not to derail but there is a brewery local to me thats all over the board with off flavors, flavors leaching from batch to the next but people still go there and think its the Shizznit. I just think it's shiz. My .02

 

[Qhrumphf]

This is exactly what i mean. I would include friends/craft beer drinkers in this category. Not to derail but there is a brewery local to me thats all over the board with off flavors, flavors leaching from batch to the next but people still go there and think its the Shizznit. I just think it's shiz. My .02

It's the small and local = good thing.

That facade can't last forever.

 

[augiedoggy]

Another thing that wasnt asked is if the beers the friends are loving are your beers or just kits or recipes others have developed? I love to brew but will be the first to admit my business partner comes up with better recipes than me hands down. my strengths are more in the hardware and maint dept being that im handy... I would never be undertaking this on my own. We spent a couple years brewing together and looking at possible locations while discussing the plan.

I do believe good beer is subjective to the drinker... and im amazed at how many like what I find flawed but hey what do I know? The whole small and local thing is one of the main reasons for the craft brewing "movement" if you will and likely the reason the brewing market has shrunk last year on all fronts but the local nanos. I'm not at all saying one is better than the other, just that good beer isnt the only requirement or even a requirement to having a successful business unfortunately.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

It's the small and local = good thing.

+1 to that. I am not a fan of the "Drink Local" motto. I understand the concept/jobs/taxes blah blah blah but none of the 3 main ingredients are local. Ohhh! your waters local?! Congrats guys, carry on!

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

rant over

 

[Qhrumphf]

+1 to that. I am not a fan of the "Drink Local" motto. I understand the concept/jobs/taxes blah blah blah but none of the 3 main ingredients are local. Ohhh! your waters local?! Congrats guys, carry on!

Eh. There's now a boatload of farm breweries around here. Plus small craft hop farms and malsters. So all local is certainly possible.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

we have one that tries to source everything within a 50 mile radius. Other than that we have none. I guess we are missing out round these parts

 

[Qhrumphf]

Hell one of the local yeast guys (has a good lab and supplies both homebrewers and pros) has a Virginia isolated clean Sacch yeast. I'd previously looked at a 100% Virginia sourced IPA for a beer at my last job, but wasn't happy with the (in)consistency of VA malts (available at the time, a few more have popped up since) for a core beer (would be fine for a one-off but then minimum ordering became an issue) so I scrapped it.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

This is exactly what i mean. I would include friends/craft beer drinkers in this category. Not to derail but there is a brewery local to me thats all over the board with off flavors, flavors leaching from batch to the next but people still go there and think its the Shizznit. I just think it's shiz. My .02

I'm do research and generally avoid breweries that get really marginal ratings. Even with that filter, I find that many of the places I go to have really average beer. Some have one or two flagship labels that are solid filled in by a bunch of mediocre beer. It's amazing to me that certain breweries really stand head and shoulders above yet a huge percentage of the consumers seem completely oblivious.

Given how saturated the market is now, I'd think long and hard about opening a brewpub. I have a group of friends that are really serious craft beer people (they routinely travel on beercations, frequently travel to attend beer festivals, trade high end beers and host shares). I'm a pretty big beer nerd myself, but don't have the budget to fly all over the country getting beer and shipping it home. Four of them offered to partner to open a brewery if I'd brew. I think we'd be late to the market at this point.

I do feel that many of the marginal places will fall by the wayside and maybe after the crash would be an opportunity, but right now would really be a struggle I think.

Oh, and while I like my beer a lot, I think there's a lot of room for improvement and I'd like to hone my repertoire of recipes more anyway. I don't think I'm ready for prime time yet. I also worry that making it a job would take the fun out of it.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I think there's a lot of room for improvement

I think any brewer worth his/her salt feels this way. No matter how good their beer is they will still continue to push the envelope, tweak their beers reaching to make them better.

 

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

I’ve really been enjoying this conversation. To a few points that were brought up, the recipes that I’m brewing, I’ve developed myself. If my family is biased, they are biased against me. They’re extremely outspoken. If my beer is even marginally bad, they will dang sure let me know now, and into the future. (“Remember that one time when you made that crappy beer...?)

My father in law has offered to be the money behind the operation, and leaving everything else up to me. I run my own business now, so that won’t be the challenge, but I’m not sure at this stage in life I want to learn a new business.

Finally, as far as market share goes, there is ONE craft brewery in at least a 60 mile radius of me, maybe even out to 100 miles. I am 20 minutes from Waco, Texas which has seen tremendous growth in tourism due to Chip and Joanna Gaines of fixer upper fame. I think in my area, it may the perfect time to strike.

But you all have brought up a ton of valid points. The main one, which has been on my mind already, is this is my hobby. I turned my first hobby into my job, and over the years it has become less and less fun. I’m not sure I want to do that again.

Carry on with the conversation. It has been very educational.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

“Remember that one time when you made that crappy beer...?

I Heart your family.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I can assure you that after 1 year of brewing, your beer is probably mediocre to average at best. That is unless you're incredibly gifted at a hobby you just began, but I'll go with the averages. Friends and family opinions mean absolutely nothing.

That doesn't mean you couldn't run an amazing business with a great atmosphere and sell average beer to uneducated/uncaring folks. I just don't know if that's sustainable.

 

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

I can assure you that after 1 year of brewing, your beer is probably mediocre to average at best. That is unless you're incredibly gifted at a hobby you just began, but I'll go with the averages. Friends and family opinions mean absolutely nothing.

That doesn't mean you couldn't run an amazing business with a great atmosphere and sell average beer to uneducated/uncaring folks. I just don't know if that's sustainable.

I’m not arguing otherwise. I just came in here to get information. I can assure you that you know nothing about me and my attention or nonattention to detail. Furthermore, you know nothing of the equipment I use to brew my beer. The only thing I can assure you of is you can assure me of nothing. My beer may be incredibly average. It may also be great. You, sir, from a distance can’t assure me of that.

I’m not thinking about opening a brewery tomorrow. I’m just on a fact finding mission to see what others have gone through that have been down this path. Thanks for the non information, though.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I’m not arguing otherwise. I just came in here to get information. I can assure you that you know nothing about me and my attention or nonattention to detail. Furthermore, you know nothing of the equipment I use to brew my beer. The only thing I can assure you of is you can assure me of nothing. My beer may be incredibly average. It may also be great. You, sir, from a distance can’t assure me of that.

I’m not thinking about opening a brewery tomorrow. I’m just on a fact finding mission to see what others have gone through that have been down this path. Thanks for the non information, though.

With the wealth of small breweries opened by homebrewers who clearly weren't ready to make the leap, and the wealth of bad beer out there as a result, people's skepticism is justified.

Don't take it personally.

 

[JimRausch]

What does it actually take to go from the home brew level to professional? Is it worth it?

There has been quite a few fairly lengthy threads over the years about homebrewers taking the leap. Do a search and you'll find a lot to read, both good and bad. A few years back, after winning a few competitions, I did the research on what it would take. A fair amount of the research was checking out threads on this forum. I also checked out the AHA forum and the Probrewers forum. Also bought several books and studied them, and visited every brewpub/brewery within 50 miles. So, do your research. Bottom line for me- 1. The big money maker in a brewpub is the food side 2. You make more $ selling your beers by the pint at your place, the least $ selling bottles/cans/kegs to others. 3. To set up a 7-10 barrel brewery, which seemed to be the minimum to sustain yourself without rebuilding and buying new equipment in 2-3 years, will cost +/- $300.000. and that didn't include buying/leasing real estate or include the food side.
4. Everyone says that whatever your setup estimate is, double or triple it and do the same for whatever timeline you've worked out.
Needless to say I was quite discouraged. Not going to happen for me unless I find a sugardaddy to bankroll the whole shooting match. For you? Dreams are a GOOD thing. Dream big , but back it up with some practical knowledge. Good Luck! If you do it. I'll come out and visit wherever you are.

 

[CodeSection]

@Blackdirt_cowboy, you have been given a wealth of information. Let's say your beer is the greatest, you have the proper capitalization and future access to additional funds, you have the best employees and are in the best location with no competition. Doesn't your statement "I’m not sure at this stage in life I want to learn a new business" really answer your question?

It can be stressful when a family member bank rolls a new business venture. Do you have a business plan? When will you breakeven? The last 9+ years, our economy has improved. People are going out to eat and drink more. I would suspect if there was a downturn in the economy (recession), the first thing people will cut in their discretionary spending is going out to eat and drink. I know in my community, several restaurants and breweries went out of business over the last nine years (many within the last two years). Could your new business venture survive a recession? Just some quick thoughts.....

 

[bleme]

I don't know about the laws in Texas, but I have had 2 friends here in California go pro. Both had to lease a commercial property, install all their beer equipment, and let it sit for a full year until all the inspections had passed before they could produce a drop.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I don't know about the laws in Texas, but I have had 2 friends here in California go pro. Both had to lease a commercial property, install all their beer equipment, and let it sit for a full year until all the inspections had passed before they could produce a drop.

I've been involved in two startups and yes, the startup capital costs and delay from funding/debt and equipment/space/buildout to any sort of revenue coming back is HUGE.

Whoever said triple your budget and triple your timeline had it right.

I guess this is all to say, if you have ANY second doubts, don't do it.

 

[jcav]

Lots of good info here. I also know of a brewery here in Florida that had to wait over ten months for all the inspections and permits. That is a long time to pay rent without being able to open and have any money coming in....

Oh and Auggie good luck on your business! Keep us posted!

John

 

[day_trippr]

If it hasn't been linked yet, here's a good thread on the topic.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/i-went-pro-what-it-actually-takes-to-do-so.386476/

I recommend pestering @Cape Brewing early and often...

Cheers!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

1. The big money maker in a brewpub is the food side 2. You make more $ selling your beers by the pint at your place, the least $ selling bottles/cans/kegs to others.

Not necessarily. The thing with food is that it's far more of a high fixed costs, high margin kinda business. So if you do it on a small scale, then it's not very profitable but is a way to sell more beer, if you can do it on a large scale then you can make some decent money. But you need to deal with chefs, who are just a nightmare.

It's interesting that in general a lot of the new places in the UK are getting away from "proper" food that needs a chef, and doing low-tech food to keep people drinking - plates of charcuterie, pies, pizzas at the most complicated (you can get pizza cookers that cook a pizza at >800*F in 90 seconds these days - none of the romance of a wood-fired oven but...90 seconds).

I think the ones that work are those with a good gender balance, which means more than just beer eg keg sparkling wine and a decent selection of gins, particularly "flavoured" gins. Works well even in a pretty primitive industrial-unit type of tap room.

Worth remembering that if you're doing it on your own, then running a brewery is 80% cleaning, 30% paperwork, 30% selling and 10% brewing - and if you're not prepared to put in 150% of the hours then it's probably not for you.

 

[idylldon]

1. The big money maker in a brewpub is the food side

This hasn't been my experience in our brewpub over the past two years--the beer floats the boat. The profit margin on food isn't even close to what it is on house-brewed beer and the staffing requirements and the resultant labor costs on the food side pretty much make the food end a push most of the time. There are two brewers at our pub, me and my assistant. In the kitchen on a busy day are two line cooks (sometimes three), two or three prep guys, and a dishwasher. On the floor we have two or three bussers, five or six servers, two bartenders, and one or two bar backs. Maybe in other parts of the country this isn't so but in So Cal there's VERY little money on the food end. According to our accountants, the industry average net for restaurants is 1.5% - 3% and you have to be REALLY diligent to hit those numbers on a consistent basis on the food side.

Cheers,
--
Don