Has anyone dry hopped at yeast pitch?

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CyberFox

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Like the title says: Has anyone dry hopped at yeast pitch? If so, how would you compare it to dry hopping normally (after fermentation)?

It's been widely stated that dry hopping during active fermentation will cause the yeast to pull down the hop oils when they floc and blow off hop aromatics through the airlock (if not fermenting under pressure), all resulting in less hop aroma in the finished beer. If anyone has actually tried dry hopping at yeast pitch (before fermentation), I'd be curious to hear your results.

Thanks in advance! :mug:
 
The recently introduced flash brewing kits from MoreBeer include hops that are to be added at the same time as all the other ingredients including the yeast. So anyone who's brewed one of those has dry hopped at yeast pitch. I suspect that the dry hops are included primarily for aroma and my guess is that they're somewhat overdosed to compensate for the losses you mention. Thread.
 
I've not dry hopped at yeast pitch but frequently dry hop at high krausen, circa day 2 of active fermentation, especially with hazy IPAs. However this isn't "exclusive", I'll also dry hop post fermentation too.

I would say that you do probably end up getting lower effective hop utilisation overall, and probably slight greater risk of over-extraction leading to grassy off-flavours, though I've never really had issues in like 3 years of making the style. I tend to do 1/3 of my DH charge at high krausen and 2/3 at target gravity, usually after dumping the trub- which I suspect is key to avoiding the grassiness.
 
The flash brewing kits (mentioned earlier) generally use a hop extract blend for bittering and cryo hops for flavor.

Yeast selection may be a factor retaining hop oils. For the APA/IPA kits, the selected yeast works well in the 65 - 85 range, so perhaps a kveik strain (I'm not aware that MoreBeer has been specific about the strain).
 
The recently introduced flash brewing kits from MoreBeer include hops that are to be added at the same time as all the other ingredients including the yeast. So anyone who's brewed one of those has dry hopped at yeast pitch. I suspect that the dry hops are included primarily for aroma and my guess is that they're somewhat overdosed to compensate for the losses you mention. Thread.
I've heard of flash brewing kits, but haven't really looked into them much. They look like an easy way to start brewing though, so that's pretty cool.

I've not dry hopped at yeast pitch but frequently dry hop at high krausen, circa day 2 of active fermentation, especially with hazy IPAs. However this isn't "exclusive", I'll also dry hop post fermentation too.

I would say that you do probably end up getting lower effective hop utilisation overall, and probably slight greater risk of over-extraction leading to grassy off-flavours, though I've never really had issues in like 3 years of making the style. I tend to do 1/3 of my DH charge at high krausen and 2/3 at target gravity, usually after dumping the trub- which I suspect is key to avoiding the grassiness.
Yeah, most people who dry hop before/during fermentation also dry hop after fermentation. You mentioned another topic that's up for debate: if leaving the hops for a certain amount of time leads to grassiness. Some people swear it does and vice versa. I know that plenty of people keg hop and don't have any grassiness, so maybe it has more to do higher temperatures. Who knows?

The flash brewing kits (mentioned earlier) generally use a hop extract blend for bittering and cryo hops for flavor.

Yeast selection may be a factor retaining hop oils. For the APA/IPA kits, the selected yeast works well in the 65 - 85 range, so perhaps a kveik strain (I'm not aware that MoreBeer has been specific about the strain).
I would bet that Morebeer uses US-05 for their APA/IPA kits since it's so popular and it's considered one of the more forgiving yeasts when it comes to temperature.


I had a local beer that was dry hopped before fermentation. I figured it would have a muted aroma, but it was just as good as other IPAs I've had. That got me thinking about how convenient it would be to dry hop at yeast pitch to prevent oxidation and decrease CO2 use. It also made me wonder if the previously mentioned drawbacks of dry hopping before/during fermentation are actually true and, even if they are, maybe you could make up for it by just increasing the amount of hops you use. I'd test it out myself right now, but I just don't have much time anymore. I haven't been able to brew for a while, but I've been thinking about what I can tweak in my future beers.
 
know that plenty of people keg hop and don't have any grassiness, so maybe it has more to do higher temperatures. Who knows?
If I keg hop at an equivalent g/L that I would dry hop something like a NEIPA at, I get pronounced grassiness by end of week 2.

I only keg hop with small hop charges of up to maybe 50g, as opposed to dry hopping up to...I believe my record is 26g/L equivalent accounting for Cryo.
 
I would bet that Morebeer uses US-05 for their APA/IPA kits since it's so popular and it's considered one of the more forgiving yeasts when it comes to temperature.

Over in the Flash Brewing FAQ (link), they mention
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Sounds like WHC High Voltage or one of the other emerging thermotolerant strains. HV is basically US-05 clean at 35°C and has neither the weird tart twang nor the habitual over-attenuatuon of Kveik strains.

It fermented my recent Mountain DIPA from 1.075 to 1.014 in 3 day at 30-32°C.
 
Regarding dry hopping at yeast pitch...There are studies showing that dry hopping early in fermentation leads to more clear beer. Based on that, I dry hopped a West Coast Pilsner at 24 hours after yeast pitch. That beer came out crystal clear with a very nice hop character (it was Centennial and Simcoe, W-34/70 at 62F). I have followed the same process with a couple follow up batches.
 
I dry hop at yeast pitch all the time. Seems to work well and I get great hop flavor and aroma. This has been tried side by side at Brulosophy several times and never had a significant difference between dry hopping later.
https://brulosophy.com/2020/09/14/d...-dry-hop-in-american-ipa-exbeeriment-results/
https://brulosophy.com/2024/09/09/e...-vs-standard-dry-hop-in-an-american-pale-ale/
https://brulosophy.com/2017/06/12/d...tandard-dry-hop-in-neipa-exbeeriment-results/
https://brulosophy.com/2022/04/28/t...as-on-a-bottle-conditioned-american-pale-ale/
Maybe, someone can tell the difference but the difference is going to be very small at best.
 
If volatiles are scrubbed/expelled during fermentation, is the theory that they're solubility-limited? I'd think at least the ratio between terpenes etc would change. I've never tried it, though.
 
Maybe, someone can tell the difference but the difference is going to be very small at best.
I would note that in two of the experiments linked, the "dry hop at yeast pitch" batch was significantly more clear. Depending on your goal, this might be a positive or a negative. I have been wanting to play with moving my dry hop for "clear" IPAs and Pale Ales earlier to see if there is an impact, though usually my Chico/US-05 fermented batches will drop clear after 2-3 weeks in the keg.
 
Regarding dry hopping at yeast pitch...There are studies showing that dry hopping early in fermentation leads to more clear beer. Based on that, I dry hopped a West Coast Pilsner at 24 hours after yeast pitch. That beer came out crystal clear with a very nice hop character (it was Centennial and Simcoe, W-34/70 at 62F). I have followed the same process with a couple follow up batches.
Glad to hear you get good results with dry hopping that early. I've also heard that dry hopping early resulted in clearer beer, which is interesting.

I dry hop at yeast pitch all the time. Seems to work well and I get great hop flavor and aroma. This has been tried side by side at Brulosophy several times and never had a significant difference between dry hopping later.
https://brulosophy.com/2020/09/14/d...-dry-hop-in-american-ipa-exbeeriment-results/
https://brulosophy.com/2024/09/09/e...-vs-standard-dry-hop-in-an-american-pale-ale/
https://brulosophy.com/2017/06/12/d...tandard-dry-hop-in-neipa-exbeeriment-results/
https://brulosophy.com/2022/04/28/t...as-on-a-bottle-conditioned-american-pale-ale/
Maybe, someone can tell the difference but the difference is going to be very small at best.
This is awesome to hear! Sounds like you're one to challenge conventional wisdom, which I like. Anymore, everything is all about dry hopping under pressure and in the absence of yeast. I've wondered if it REALLY makes that big of a difference. You seem to think it doesn't, which is good to hear.

Tally up a couple more brewers saying that dry hopping early has good results!
 
Tally up a couple more brewers saying that dry hopping early has good results!
I might add that I feel like there is a lot of flexibility if you are dry hopping 2-4 oz in a 5 gal batch (50 - 100 g per 19L). When I pushed my Hazy IPA dry hop levels up to the 8 or 10 oz range, I had a few batches where I had a hop astringency that took 2 weeks to settle out. My WC Pils batches that I dry hopped early used 3 oz.

For my last several batches I have done a soft crash to help drop out yeast, then a 2 day dry hop at 55F to 60F. This is all done after fermentation has been steady for 3+ days. I am getting a good level of hop character without the astringency. I have mostly just used standard T-90 pellets. Hop extracts of concentrated pellets might be another way to reduce hop burn and astringency.

Also, the thought of dry hopping a Kveik batch at 85F scares me a bit, combined with worries that the aggressive fermentation might strip out hop aromas. I have always dry hopped Kveik batches at room temp or below after fermentation is complete.
 
I might add that I feel like there is a lot of flexibility if you are dry hopping 2-4 oz in a 5 gal batch (50 - 100 g per 19L). When I pushed my Hazy IPA dry hop levels up to the 8 or 10 oz range, I had a few batches where I had a hop astringency that took 2 weeks to settle out. My WC Pils batches that I dry hopped early used 3 oz.

For my last several batches I have done a soft crash to help drop out yeast, then a 2 day dry hop at 55F to 60F. This is all done after fermentation has been steady for 3+ days. I am getting a good level of hop character without the astringency. I have mostly just used standard T-90 pellets. Hop extracts of concentrated pellets might be another way to reduce hop burn and astringency.

Also, the thought of dry hopping a Kveik batch at 85F scares me a bit, combined with worries that the aggressive fermentation might strip out hop aromas. I have always dry hopped Kveik batches at room temp or below after fermentation is complete.
That's a good point about hop astringency. I imagine cold crashing and conditioning would help with that. I haven't had any astringency yet, but I also haven't dry hopped with anything over 6 oz yet. I'll eventually try dry hopping with 12 oz, so that might be a different story.

I usually start drinking my beers after 30 days (1 month grain to glass) whether they need it or not. For whatever reason, that's the point where it starts tasting right to me. Speaking of which, for the local beer I had that was dry hopped before fermentation, I tried it at 3 weeks and thought that the hop aroma and flavor was seriously muted. I figured that was due to dry hopping too early. I tried it again at 30 days and I thought, "holy crap! This is a completely different beer!" The hop aroma and flavor absolutely popped. Even IPAs need some conditioning!

As far as wondering if dry hopping at 85 degrees would strip hop aromas, there's only one way to find out! :rock:
 
As far as wondering if dry hopping at 85 degrees would strip hop aromas, there's only one way to find out! :rock:
My go to IPA is fermented with Voss. It starts at 68* and gose no higher then 86*, I try to hold it to 76*. I rack the wort onto 2 oz in the FV at 68* or so, pitch yeast and oxygenate. Voss is so aggressive that the insulated fermenter is all you need to get to 86* in a day or 2. It's over in 3-5 days, let it sit for 14 days in primary. A couple of swirls during this time and the hops settle out and i rack clear beer into a keg. I've got really good reviews and am trying different hops cause for some reason the tropical ones gave me grapefruit pith and pine. Was one of the best Westies I've made tho.
 
I might add that I feel like there is a lot of flexibility if you are dry hopping 2-4 oz in a 5 gal batch (50 - 100 g per 19L). When I pushed my Hazy IPA dry hop levels up to the 8 or 10 oz range, I had a few batches where I had a hop astringency that took 2 weeks to settle out. My WC Pils batches that I dry hopped early used 3 oz.
This 👆.

I too think that when brewers starting dry hopping beers at 4 or 5+ pounds per barrel it really changed what would come to be considered "best practices" around dry hopping. When 1 or 2 pounds per barrel was the norm, or even the high end of normal, many of the things that brewers worry about today were likely much less of an issue.

I'm forgetting where I read it, but there was an article in one of the brewing magazines written by someone at Omega Yeast about how hops and yeast contribute to haze and haze-stability. One of the things I recall them saying was that contrary to popular belief (at the time), the earlier dry hops were introduced was actually negatively correlated with haze. Their point was to be aware that only dry hopping early in hopes of biotransformation might ultimately hinder the beers ability to hold haze in case that's what the brewer was aiming for.
 
This 👆.

I too think that when brewers starting dry hopping beers at 4 or 5+ pounds per barrel it really changed what would come to be considered "best practices" around dry hopping. When 1 or 2 pounds per barrel was the norm, or even the high end of normal, many of the things that brewers worry about today were likely much less of an issue.

I'm forgetting where I read it, but there was an article in one of the brewing magazines written by someone at Omega Yeast about how hops and yeast contribute to haze and haze-stability. One of the things I recall them saying was that contrary to popular belief (at the time), the earlier dry hops were introduced was actually negatively correlated with haze. Their point was to be aware that only dry hopping early in hopes of biotransformation might ultimately hinder the beers ability to hold haze in case that's what the brewer was aiming for.
That's a good point about the introduction of higher dry hop rates changing best practices. Even now with all the research it's still hard to pin down the best dry hop process (higher vs. lower temp, dry hopping earlier vs. later, with pressure vs. without pressure, etc.) since many seem to have success with different methods.

It seems that the trend has gone towards dry hopping below 60 degrees, away from the yeast, and under pressure. I've listened to/watched podcasts/videos from Yakima Chief recommending to dry hop at room temp (I imagine 68-72 degrees) just before the end of fermentation and under a slight bit of pressure (about 4-5 psi). I imagine they know what they're talking about, but like I said, it seems that many also get good results with different methods.
 
It seems that the trend has gone towards dry hopping below 60 degrees, away from the yeast, and under pressure. I've listened to/watched podcasts/videos from Yakima Chief recommending to dry hop at room temp (I imagine 68-72 degrees) just before the end of fermentation and under a slight bit of pressure (about 4-5 psi). I imagine they know what they're talking about, but like I said, it seems that many also get good results with different methods.
Certainly. There definitely still seems to be a good amount of room for personal preferences.

I think this is also another one of those situations where drawing a distinction between what the pros do and what should/can be done on the homebrew scale is warranted. We are lucky as homebrewers in that we have so much less to worry about logistically, and can focus almost exclusively on qualitative outcomes. Professional breweries always have to find a balance between optimizing quality of the product with efficiency in process and production. Dry hopping at yeast pitch is a perfect example of this. For breweries where buying a fresh pitch of yeast for every batch would be much too cost-prohibitive, dry hopping too early just might not be feasible from a production standpoint regardless of the potential impact on the beer.
 
Hopping at yeast pitch, or a day after perhaps, is really interesting as far as not introducing O2 vs. hopping well after fermentation and even some chilling.

Seems like, as often is the case, the answer to it being better or worse or the same is "it depends" - on your hops, your yeast, and so on. I think I'll try it my next batch of a Pale Ale I've brewed many times. If I can keep the O2 out I'll be much happier, especially when the whole magnet thing (clean a muslin bag, load with hops, magnetize to interior of fermenter, etc.) is getting annoying.
 
I really like this idea, so I tried it on my most recent session IPA (using Centennial in the boil, Vic Secret, Galaxy, and Citra in the whirlpool, and Vic Secret, Galaxy, and Citra in the dry hop). Although it felt really odd adding the hops at yeast pitch, I got a pretty intense fermentation (in the range of 17-18C / 62-64F) and the really interesting thing was how the yeast fermentation smell coming out of the airlock and filling the area I was keeping the fermenter smelled intensely like tropical hops, most predominantly like Galaxy. Once fermentation stopped (or rather, once bubbling in the airlock stopped), the smell slowly faded away. I remember a long time ago the common advice saying that dry hops in the fermenter during fermentation would drive off aromatics, but that never really made much sense, because if that were the case, then you'd assume that no matter how many late boil additions you made (10 minutes, 5 minutes, 1 minute, flameout) and whirlpool/hopstand additions you made, all the aromatics from those would be driven off during fermentation, and obviously that's not the case. In beers with zero dry hopping, I tend to find the hop character stronger in the finished beer than in the initial gravity sample (and I attribute that more to the sugars not getting in the way anymore than to the nature of the hops having changed).

I'm going to take a gravity reading tomorrow and possibly start cold crashing right after that, but this particular beer was strangely clear at the initial gravity reading, way more than usual, so I imagine the dry hopping will do that even more. I'm still planning to clarify with gelatin, but I'm not sure if I even should.
 
Yeah, minimizing oxygen and CO2 use (not that it's that expensive) are two bonuses of dry hopping at yeast pitch and I really like the idea. It's also just plain easier. I find myself thinking about homebrewing and ways I can improve my processes, different ideas, etc. I imagine a lot of people daydream about homebrewing while at work. o_O

I still don't know if it has actually been proven that flocculating yeast drag down hop oils or that aromatics are blown out of the airlock. If there is proof, I'd be interested in seeing it. I don't really get why gelatin supposedly doesn't drag down hop oils and yeast does. It might for all I know, but I've never used it.
 
I still don't know if it has actually been proven that flocculating yeast drag down hop oils or that aromatics are blown out of the airlock.
Well, re hop volatiles, you can smell them, so they're definitely getting blow out. If you scrub 19L of beer with 440L of gas (credit doug), that's pretty significant.

But if they're solubility limited more than source limited, it might not matter. If that's the case, though, why do we add more hops? (More soluble non-volatiles?)
 
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