Hard apple cider

[BadMotherTrucker]

So on Christmas Eve, I put 4 gallons of pasteurized but no additive apple cider into my 5gal carboy, and added 1 package of Safeale US 05. It has bubbled away since then. I took a sample today, and tried to get a reading. I couldn't find my new hydrometer, and the older one I have measures only proof and tralles. The test showed that my cider measures at 0 tralles and doesn't even register on the proof scale. I tasted it, and it does taste much drier than cider, almost like a reds apple ale, and very carbonated, but Im questioning whether theres any alcohol in it since it won't even register on the proof scale of my hydrometer. I know, Im a newbie, but any advice would be appreciated. Its been fermenting for 10 days, and I planned on leaving it in the primary for 3-4 weeks.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

I'm not completely familiar with the use of an alcoholometer, but from what I understand it is for distilled spirits and will not properly ready the gravity of Beer, Wine or Cider. Apparently it reads the alcohol percentage in WATER/ALCOHOL solutions only.

You're going to need to find the hydrometer for accurate readings. It sounds like it's been fermenting so I'd say it's got alcohol in it. Just estimate that the original juice was around 1.050 somewhere and then you can calculate with your reading (from the hydrometer) If you want it to be more accurate you can get more of your original juice and take a OG reading from that.

 

[theck]

It is odd to see it go below 1 but it will... Did you take a reading on start that would tell you if it's booze. I'm sure it probably is though. Drink a glass and find out, ha.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[BadMotherTrucker]

Well, I found my original hydrometer, did another test, and it is 1.011 today. From 12 days in the fermenter, and a reading of 1.011, what am I looking at now? Another 2 weeks in the fermenter? Am I looking for a SG of 1.010ish? I have read enough on here to know I don't want to turn it to vinegar, but I have read so many threads that say 2 weeks or 4 weeks in the 1st fermenter. Also, after my fermentation is complete, and I transfer to a secondary, how can I ensure fermentation stops?

 

[WVMJ]

Does your proof hydrometer measure potential alcohol? If that is the case then your potential goes down as it ferments, you had the potential to make 10%, its now 0%, so you made all the potential alcohol you could. You might want to top off your carboy with another gallon of cider if you are worried about oxidation and vinegar, thats a lot of headspace. Fermentation will stop after the yeasts eat all the sugars it can eat, you can even add more sugar very slowly and carefully if you want to boost the alcohol levels a bit. WVMJ

 

[theck]

Well, I found my original hydrometer, did another test, and it is 1.011 today. From 12 days in the fermenter, and a reading of 1.011, what am I looking at now? Another 2 weeks in the fermenter? Am I looking for a SG of 1.010ish? I have read enough on here to know I don't want to turn it to vinegar, but I have read so many threads that say 2 weeks or 4 weeks in the 1st fermenter. Also, after my fermentation is complete, and I transfer to a secondary, how can I ensure fermentation stops?

Depends how you like it I stopped my first batch at 1.01 and thought it turned out great. Sweet still like apple juice but with a mellow kick, 5% The second I let go way below that and it's more like apple wine, 10% (2 lb sugar added). Funny thing is people,like either so... This next batch will be kegged soon as the other is almost tapped, but only did 3 gallons, 4 lbs sugar and it's stopped fermenting after 5 or 6 weeks... Adding 2 gallons before I keg. Love the ciders cheap and easy, plus experimentation is fun.

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[theck]

Double

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Well, I found my original hydrometer, did another test, and it is 1.011 today. From 12 days in the fermenter, and a reading of 1.011, what am I looking at now? Another 2 weeks in the fermenter? Am I looking for a SG of 1.010ish? I have read enough on here to know I don't want to turn it to vinegar, but I have read so many threads that say 2 weeks or 4 weeks in the 1st fermenter. Also, after my fermentation is complete, and I transfer to a secondary, how can I ensure fermentation stops?

There are a lot of unknown variables that will determine how much longer it will take to get to 1.000. I've found that US-05 likes to take it's own sweet time if it's in the colder part of its tolerance range.

If you want to age it longer, you could go ahead and transfer it to secondary now. The remaining .012 points or so will ensure that there is CO2 production to protect the cider from oxidation.

Vinegar is a product of an infection. Cider won't turn to vinegar just because it's aged. If you were careful with sanitation, this shouldn't be an issue.

Fermentation stops when you hit a final gravity you are comfortable bottling or kegging at. If you like your cider at 1.010, then you can bottle, but you'll have to stop top pasteurize. (or if you want to backsweeten) If you let it go to 1.005 or so (which is where I like my ciders) then you can bottle and keep them cool to slow down the process. I've found that my last bottles of the batch were dryer than the ones from the beginning and the carbonation level is a little higher because the yeast keeps doing it's thing.

I just keg my ciders now and keep it in the kegerator. It usually only lasts a couple of weeks in there so additional fermentation isn't much of an issue.

 

[BadMotherTrucker]

I really appreciate all your input guys. It is great to find a forum where people are willing to help a little, rather than to just throw out an instant "go search it". (Which I did, there are just so many variants out there on opinions)

1. Just to be sure, I am sitting at 4 gallons in a 5 gallon carboy. I should add another gallon of cider to limit headspace.
2. With this added gallon, would you say adding an additional 1 pound of sugar will boost my alcohol level to near 10% since the additional gallon would have a lot of sugar in it already?
3. Using Safeale US 05, will the yeast be sufficient after adding more sugar, or better stated, should I ever add more yeast?
4. I have Dextrose priming sugar that I use for beer, would this type sugar be proper in this application?

Thanks again y'all.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

1. Just to be sure, I am sitting at 4 gallons in a 5 gallon carboy. I should add another gallon of cider to limit headspace.
2. With this added gallon, would you say adding an additional 1 pound of sugar will boost my alcohol level to near 10% since the additional gallon would have a lot of sugar in it already?
3. Using Safeale US 05, will the yeast be sufficient after adding more sugar, or better stated, should I ever add more yeast?
4. I have Dextrose priming sugar that I use for beer, would this type sugar be proper in this application?

Thanks again y'all.

1: You don't need to top it up if it's in your primary vessel. If you rack to secondary with fermentation completely halted, you would need to top it up in order to combat oxidation.

2: If this is your first batch, I would recommend skipping additional sugar unless you decide to add Apple Juice. Just my 2¢ though. It will be headed more towards apple wine at 10%.

3: US-05 should get you to 8-10% ABV with no problems. Over 10% and you would have to determine how to proceed. Keep in mind that adding additional sugars along the process, it will be hard to determine your final ABV.

4: Dextrose is a great option for for bottle carbing.

I enjoy proving my insight from experience. Of course no one really knows everything there is with all of the variables involved. Start basic for a baseline then experiment from there. Keep everything sanitized, temps low, have some patience and enjoy what you create.

"Y'all" sounds like a good ol' southern attitude Here's to hoping ya'll have Happy New Year!

 

[BadMotherTrucker]

[/QUOTE]"Y'all" sounds like a good ol' southern attitude Here's to hoping ya'll have Happy New Year![/QUOTE]

Thanks again. Much appreciated. And yes, just north of Columbus, Ga.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

My wife has friends in Hogansville and I used to live in Newnan. Beautiful part of the state down near Columbus. Welcome to the forum!

 

[theck]

I would back sweeten before bottle or kegs. And try more sugar on your next batch. Easy and cheap enough to do.

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[BadMotherTrucker]

Okay, Ive been reading threads all day. This will be my last questions for this batch. My reading today was 1.01, so I think Im ready to move to secondary. I added another gallon of apple cider to the 4 fermented gallons today.

What I was planning on doing now is (supposing that one gallon of unfermented juice was enough to back sweeten the other 4 gallons) rack the 5 total gallons out back into the original 1 gallon glass jars it came in.

My thoughts (or hopes) are that once the five jars begin to ferment again off the gallon of fresh juice I added, and start to build up carbonation, I will use 1 jar to judge carbonation off and when its right, pasteurize the other 4 to halt fermentation and drink the one. Does this sound like a solid plan?

All this being said, any experts out there that could roughly estimate my alcohol content? 4 Gals store bought cider (pasteurized, no preservatives), US 05 yeast, in primary for 12 days, SG was 1.05 FG was 1.01 then added another gallon of fresh cider.

 

[theck]

All this being said, any experts out there that could roughly estimate my alcohol content? 4 Gals store bought cider (pasteurized, no preservatives), US 05 yeast, in primary for 12 days, SG was 1.05 FG was 1.01 then added another gallon of fresh cider.

Check this for ABV...
http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/

Yours is:
5.25%

Might squeeze out a bit more if the yeast work on the new juice.

 

[Yooper]

Okay, Ive been reading threads all day. This will be my last questions for this batch. My reading today was 1.01, so I think Im ready to move to secondary. I added another gallon of apple cider to the 4 fermented gallons today.

What I was planning on doing now is (supposing that one gallon of unfermented juice was enough to back sweeten the other 4 gallons) rack the 5 total gallons out back into the original 1 gallon glass jars it came in.

My thoughts (or hopes) are that once the five jars begin to ferment again off the gallon of fresh juice I added, and start to build up carbonation, I will use 1 jar to judge carbonation off and when its right, pasteurize the other 4 to halt fermentation and drink the one. Does this sound like a solid plan?

All this being said, any experts out there that could roughly estimate my alcohol content? 4 Gals store bought cider (pasteurized, no preservatives), US 05 yeast, in primary for 12 days, SG was 1.05 FG was 1.01 then added another gallon of fresh cider.

You aren't going to want to carbonate in the original glass jars- they will explode. You need something that can hold some carbonation pressure, like beer bottles.

 

[WVMJ]

I think your yeast is going to eat your new addition of cider, you are going to dilute 1 gal into a total of 5, so your 1.050 in your fresh cider will be diluted to 1.010 which is where you are at now so you wont be sweetening it at all, just making more. You need some nice beer bottles or champagne bottles to keep from getting hurt, those original gal bottles are only good to use as a gallon fermentor, not for storing something that might keep fermenting and blow it up. Good luck, WVMJ

 

[BadMotherTrucker]

Thanks a bunch Yooper, Theck and WVMJ. I really appreciate the input. I bottled it all up in my Grolsch beer bottles (left a gallon back to "test the taste").

 

[BadMotherTrucker]

You aren't going to want to carbonate in the original glass jars- they will explode. You need something that can hold some carbonation pressure, like beer bottles.

So since I put them in my beer bottles, and they are still fermenting that gallon of fresh juice I added, do you think Ill still be in danger of over pressuring my beer bottles? If so, how long should I wait to pasteurize them to stop the yeast?

 

[Yooper]

So since I put them in my beer bottles, and they are still fermenting that gallon of fresh juice I added, do you think Ill still be in danger of over pressuring my beer bottles? If so, how long should I wait to pasteurize them to stop the yeast?

Yes, I think you could have bottle bombs.

Normally, you'd bottle one in a plastic soda bottle to judge carbonation, and then pasteurize the glass bottles when it gets hard.

The difficulty with judging carbonation by days is that the yeast may take weeks to finish up- or one day. It depends on how much yeast is in suspension, how healthy the yeast is, the temperature, etc. There is no way to tell you to check in 3 days, 7 days, etc- as it varies wildly.

 

[BadMotherTrucker]

Yes, I think you could have bottle bombs.

Normally, you'd bottle one in a plastic soda bottle to judge carbonation, and then pasteurize the glass bottles when it gets hard.

The difficulty with judging carbonation by days is that the yeast may take weeks to finish up- or one day. It depends on how much yeast is in suspension, how healthy the yeast is, the temperature, etc. There is no way to tell you to check in 3 days, 7 days, etc- as it varies wildly.

Sweet, then what Ill do is open one up and pour it into a sanitized soda bottle to give me a rough gauge. I guess this is why I was told this first few batches would be a lot of learning. Thanks for all your help!

 

[MindenMan]

I too agree with using a PET bottle to test for carbonation. One thing though, how fizzy do you want your cider. A very little, little, 3 volumes of carbonation like the "average" home brew, or do you want to have "soda" like carbonation? If you want soda like bubbles, get a new, unopened bottle of soda, and when your sample is as difficult to squeeze as the "factory" bottle, time to pasteurize. As far as knowing how partially carbonated your cider is, you really don't, so your best guess is the best guess. When I pasteurized my cider, the bottle still had plenty of give to it, and the carbonation was much less than I had hoped for. If Yooper sees this, I now have a question about back sweetening. Would you sweeten to taste and then add priming sugar? Would that be an accident waiting to happen? Would you say initially with all the "extra" sugar, will the cider carb faster, needing to be pasteurized sooner? I don't have a clue on that one.