Hard Apple Cider Help

[DieselGunsBeer]

So I have just finished my current batch of Cider here is the recipe I used.

1 gallon of apple juice
1/3 cup of brown sugar
1/3 cup of sugar
3 grams of nottingham dry ale yeast

It's really low alcohol content and I wanted to move my gravity up so I can get a higher alcohol content. But I really enjoy the flavor. The gravity I'm aiming for is 1.091 and a ABV content of 12%. I like dry Ciders so dry isn't an issue. What I'm wondering is if I change the recipe to

1 gallon of juice
3/4lb of brown sugar
3/4lb of sugar
3-4 grams of Lalvin EC-1118

Will it still be good and not be sour? Cause someone told me my recipe would be very sour. And should I use the Lalvin or continue using Nottingham? I'm a beginner and I don't have tons of money to experiment with that's why I'm asking. Any experience and tips are helpful especially concerning these two yeasts.

 

[DaMonkey]

So I have just finished my current batch of Cider here is the recipe I used.

1 gallon of apple juice
1/3 cup of brown sugar
1/3 cup of sugar
3 grams of nottingham dry ale yeast

It's really low alcohol content and I wanted to move my gravity up so I can get a higher alcohol content. But I really enjoy the flavor. The gravity I'm aiming for is 1.091 and a ABV content of 12%. I like dry Ciders so dry isn't an issue. What I'm wondering is if I change the recipe to

1 gallon of juice
3/4lb of brown sugar
3/4lb of sugar
3-4 grams of Lalvin EC-1118

Will it still be good and not be sour? Cause someone told me my recipe would be very sour. And should I use the Lalvin or continue using Nottingham? I'm a beginner and I don't have tons of money to experiment with that's why I'm asking. Any experience and tips are helpful especially concerning these two yeasts.

I do not like Nottingham and would not suggest it for a higher ABV cider anyways. I use EC-1118 all the time, its my favorite. Its a great wine yeast and that is why it will be good for a high ABV cider. So yes use EC-1118.

I like the sour taste so I am not a great judge on whats too sour. But the sourness is usually correlated to how dry your drink is. So if it tastes too sour to you, you just add sugar. Its very simple.

To control how sour without adding sugar, you need to control the acid content of your juice. If you are buying your juice from a store then you can't do that. If you really do not want to add sugar to the final product you could add raisins to the primary which will provide tannins; which add a secondary flavor of a mouthy bitterness which would add complexity and take away from sourness.

So if the person who told you it would be sour doesn't know what juice your using then they couldn't possibly know what the final product will be. Maybe he just correlated super dry to sour like most people do.

 

[HawleyFarms]

I'm not really sure how you had a low abv with added sugar. Notty will get at least 9%. The cider I pressed myself was 1.06 without added sugar and ended up around 9% (using wine yeast) and that is just starting to taste good after 4 months. If you are aiming for a high wine abv you are going to want to age it for quite awhile before it is drinkable.

 

[DieselGunsBeer]

I do not like Nottingham and would not suggest it for a higher ABV cider anyways. I use EC-1118 all the time, its my favorite. Its a great wine yeast and that is why it will be good for a high ABV cider. So yes use EC-1118.

I like the sour taste so I am not a great judge on whats too sour. But the sourness is usually correlated to how dry your drink is. So if it tastes too sour to you, you just add sugar. Its very simple.

To control how sour without adding sugar, you need to control the acid content of your juice. If you are buying your juice from a store then you can't do that. If you really do not want to add sugar to the final product you could add raisins to the primary which will provide tannins; which add a secondary flavor of a mouthy bitterness which would add complexity and take away from sourness.

So if the person who told you it would be sour doesn't know what juice your using then they couldn't possibly know what the final product will be. Maybe he just correlated super dry to sour like most people do.

Can you elaborate on why you like Lalvin over the Nottingham? Cause I too like dry and sour cider but when they said really sour I was worried it might turn out overly sour. Also if I just replace Nottingham with the Lalvin and use the same recipe as before should I get close to the same taste as my first batch.

 

[DieselGunsBeer]

I'm not really sure how you had a low abv with added sugar. Notty will get at least 9%. The cider I pressed myself was 1.06 without added sugar and ended up around 9% (using wine yeast) and that is just starting to taste good after 4 months. If you are aiming for a high wine abv you are going to want to age it for quite awhile before it is drinkable.

Mine is still fermenting but I tried it and I'm guessing at the stage its in it's about 7% ABV and I find that perfect. I'm almost considering not changing it at all and maybe just changing the yeast to Lalvin.

 

[DaMonkey]

Can you elaborate on why you like Lalvin over the Nottingham? Cause I too like dry and sour cider but when they said really sour I was worried it might turn out overly sour. Also if I just replace Nottingham with the Lalvin and use the same recipe as before should I get close to the same taste as my first batch.

I pressed 16 gallons of juice. Split it up and used 3 yeasts (Nottingham, D47 and EC-1118). The Nottingham completely stall out at like 1.02, it did finish off but it took longer and due to the struggle I had a suffer odor. I got rid of the odor but the flavor was oddly apple, everyone else seemed to like it but I could taste the difference. This is why I do not like Nottingham, its also a ale yeast and not really meant for cider and certainly not meant for wine (high ABV cider).

I liked the flavor of EC-1118 the most of all my batches.

Yeasts do change the flavor and smell. People say that EC-1118 blows off the aroma but I haven't noticed it yet. I like it because it makes the apple flavor very crisp and clean its not muddled with off flavors. Its also quick and makes a very dry product.

But to answer your question the flavor from your first batch will be different but not so much that you would hate it if you loved the first batch. Also I do not think it will be overly sour, I would not worry about it. Like I said if you think it is add sugar.

 

[DaMonkey]

I'm not really sure how you had a low abv with added sugar. Notty will get at least 9%. The cider I pressed myself was 1.06 without added sugar and ended up around 9% (using wine yeast) and that is just starting to taste good after 4 months. If you are aiming for a high wine abv you are going to want to age it for quite awhile before it is drinkable.

What apples did you use? 1.06 is really high for pressed apples. Golden Delicious are only 1.052 and they are the highest standard apple I know of. What are you using Foxwelp?

 

[HawleyFarms]

Using equal amounts of Macoun, Crispin, Cortland and McIntosh to achieve 50% sweet, 25% sharp and 25% bittersharp.

 

[DieselGunsBeer]

I pressed 16 gallons of juice. Split it up and used 3 yeasts (Nottingham, D47 and EC-1118). The Nottingham completely stall out at like 1.02, it did finish off but it took longer and due to the struggle I had a suffer odor. I got rid of the odor but the flavor was oddly apple, everyone else seemed to like it but I could taste the difference. This is why I do not like Nottingham, its also a ale yeast and not really meant for cider and certainly not meant for wine (high ABV cider).

I liked the flavor of EC-1118 the most of all my batches.

Yeasts do change the flavor and smell. People say that EC-1118 blows off the aroma but I haven't noticed it yet. I like it because it makes the apple flavor very crisp and clean its not muddled with off flavors. Its also quick and makes a very dry product.

But to answer your question the flavor from your first batch will be different but not so much that you would hate it if you loved the first batch. Also I do not think it will be overly sour, I would not worry about it. Like I said if you think it is add sugar.

So just to get this straight. The EC-1118 will not kill the apple flavor completely? It will make it more crisp? And how long will I have to age it? I don't have the room to age cider or anything.

 

[Dave_K]

So just to get this straight. The EC-1118 will not kill the apple flavor completely? It will make it more crisp? And how long will I have to age it? I don't have the room to age cider or anything.

I used 1118 on a cider once. Used store bought juice and added sugar to hit about 8%.
It certainly dried it out and completely lost all Apple flavor.
I even aged it for over 6 months hoping it would improve, but no. It was terrible. Tasted watery and metallic.

Now I always use an English ale yeast (s-04) and get much better results. Could be my personal taste, but I do get a lot of compliments on my cider.

 

[HawleyFarms]

So just to get this straight. The EC-1118 will not kill the apple flavor completely? It will make it more crisp? And how long will I have to age it? I don't have the room to age cider or anything.

Have to be honest I have had the exact opposite comparing the 3 yeasts he mentions. When I used 1118 it stripped the cider of all its apple flavor that just left it tasting hot. Never aged into anything decent. D-47 did leave some apple flavor but took about the same amount of time as cote des blanc to get it tasting good enough to drink. I have a case of d47 and cote de blanc left to see how they compare after 1 year. Since then I have been using ale yeasts in my ciders and have gotten 100% better.

 

[DaMonkey]

So just to get this straight. The EC-1118 will not kill the apple flavor completely? It will make it more crisp? And how long will I have to age it? I don't have the room to age cider or anything.

As Dave K and Hawley have said its a matter of taste. EC-1118 is a wine yeast, if you don't like wine do not use it. It makes a really dry product, adding sugar makes it taste great. I usually only rack for 2-3 weeks then bottle. After 2 weeks everything I make is drinkable. You might have to wait longer because of the ABV. I am usually around 7-8% ABV.

I use high quality cider, freshly pressed (my self or by a farm). I still get it now from a farm near by. If you use apple juice from the grocery store that doesn't have very much apple taste and has been pasteurized and filtered then you may end up with a product that doesn't have as pronounced of an apple flavor.

If you are concerned then I suggest using D47 and saving the EC-1118 for if you like the D47.

 

[DaMonkey]

Using equal amounts of Macoun, Crispin, Cortland and McIntosh to achieve 50% sweet, 25% sharp and 25% bittersharp.

Wish I could find a bittersharp apple here. McIntosh is one of my favorite cider apples. Do you age the apples?