Happiness is: Home malting

[Brewbecca]

Thanks for the links. It's very interesting findind that still nowadays there are guys revolting barley with a shovel on the floor. I was thinking about doing something similar. I've got a big room I could convert to malting floor, too bad the floor itself is wooden, I should put another layer for laying the barley.

Anyway, the best video I found on youtube typing "malting floor" is this one:



:rockin:

 

[Absinthe]

just joined the forums and i thought id share a vid on how i make all my own malts (i dont buy ANY malt anymore )








as for the steep the "hole in my bucket method" is idiot proof and works every time for me, i have also never needed to add any moisture during the malting in fact every time i have (the early days) i got bad mould infections, try and keep the malt at less than 15°C during the malting to help prevent this, also adding moisture just means you have more to dry off when kilning.

so far i have malted about 200kg on the floor and im upto about 70kg in my new rolling malt prover (vid should be up tomorrow im uploading it to youtube now)

 

[Brewbecca]

Hello fellow maltsters
I've been busy a bit in other matters, so I neglected the malting process for a while; I'm still at malting batch no 1, the one with the black ends. I'm also waiting for some autumn to come, to have cooler temperatures during the germinating/couching phase.
Anyway I'm glad to announce two things: 1st, I'm going to brew the first beer with my homemade malt on monday!
2nd and more important: I just received the book Malts and malting, ordered on the 23rd of july, extimated delivery mid september, arrived 2 days ago! what can I say, it's huge, big, massive, heavy, thick of informations. I will need time to read and interpret it, since english is not my mother language and many times the terms used are beyond my comprehension. So i just decided to have a vocabulary beside the book, it's much useful!

Absinthe: thanks for posting your videos. I like the roller very much. I haven't decided yet wether to have a single vessel that contains the grains from steeping to kilning, or to have the good old malting floor. I hope the book will clear the ideas.

Keep malting!

 

[Brewbecca]

Hey guys
so I'm almost done with the brewing. We had several "accidents", so probably it won't be the best beer ever
Anyway, we had some problems that might be related to my malt, so here they are, hoping any of you have got answers:
1) even if we had a "saccarification" (?) step of more than 2 hours, the iodine test has been negative all through. So I reckon the starch didn't modify into sugars. So did the malt have no starch? no enzymes? how could I prevent this to happen?
2) we had problems with filtering the must. Some malt somehow "melted" into a kind of viscous jelly; well, not as bad as this, just to give an idea. My brewer friend told me that usually this doesn't happen with the malt he gets from internet. Again, any suggestion on how to prevent this during the malting process?
Thanks guys. Keep malting!?!

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . no enzymes? how could I prevent this to happen?

Sounds like you didn't get any or very little modification?

2) . . . a kind of viscous jelly; . . . Again, any suggestion on how to prevent this during the malting process?

Sounds like the starches were gelatinized and didn't have the enzymes to convert it.

It's hard to suggest any remedies without specific timelines and temperatures of your process . . . . However, in your statement a few posts ago where you had overmodified malts in 48 hours was very hard for me to believe, Possibly in the very fast malting process there wasn't enough time for the enzymes to be released and/or be created or they didn't have time to "unpack" the starches?

This could possibly be partially remedied by a Beta-glucan rest during the mash, did your brewer do a step mash at all or just one step at saccarification temp?

 

[Clayton]

1) even if we had a "saccarification" (?) step of more than 2 hours, the iodine test has been negative all through. So I reckon the starch didn't modify into sugars. So did the malt have no starch? no enzymes? how could I prevent this to happen?

what do you mean by " negative" do you mean the iodine did not turn blue? or did turn blue?.. if you mean it did not turn blue it could be the the convertion happond quickly. there are alot of times when i brew a no adjunct beer that the bulk of the convertion is done in 20 min or so, even more so with fresh malt. i dont kiln (heat dry)my base malt other than an hr in the dryer, and it is super active, please clarify.

 

[Brewbecca]

The iodine was black. I kilned my malt 2 hours at about 212 fahreneit in my house oven. We used only the malt I made, so in the pot there was just my malt and water.

My opinion is that there was lack of enzymes in the malt. So the starches couldn't convert in sugars (black iodine) and the starches gelatinized and obstructed the filter.

What we did is (if I remember correctly): 15 min at 113F, 30 min at 131F, 1 hour at 149F and then 10 minutes mash out at 174F. The temps might be a little different, I don't remember them exactly.

The final result was descouraging: colour like cappuccino, a bit viscous and a kind of suspension like mashed lentils. Make me feel thirsty

Finally, how to prevent this during the germination: really don't know. Maybe I should improve this "couching" to slow down the process. But how to limitate the air (oxygen) without having a rise in the temperature and formation of mould?

 

[Clayton]

how did you make malt witrh no emzines
just for fun add some beano ASAP.
http://www.beanogas.com/?redirectfrom=www.beano.net

 

[COLObrewer]

how did you make malt witrh no emzines
just for fun add some beano ASAP.
http://www.beanogas.com/?redirectfrom=www.beano.net

+1, I would have thought if the barley grew, it would have to have at least some enzymes?

That mash schedule should have worked, I suggest you read the book you got. Maybe that will shed some light and possibly after that you can tell US a few things about malting, I wish I could afford "Malts and Malting"

 

[Brewbecca]

how did you make malt witrh no emzines

I really don't know, that's the problem!
Few things I'm sure of: I grew a kind of barley specific for malting (at least that's what I requested, there might be a chance of a mistake in the delivering, but I'd exclude it at the moment). It grew well, the grains are quite big. I followed the basic malting procedure, that is steeping/aerating, then germinating in a malting floor, then drying then kilning. It even had a nice malt smell. But it turned out to be without enzymes.

So the only odd things that happened is that ultra fast germination: that might be the problem but, again, I don't know how to prevent it.
Or, there's something else I don't know. Then I'm also eager to read that book, but since I've got plenties other things to do, it will be a slow reading. Then I will explain you everything I got. Then we can even start a new branch in the forum, or a new forum at all!

But in the meantime... LOL

 

[Absinthe]

if it malted super fast then its getting to hot during malting (more than 20°C is to hot) and your malt has "bolted" 48 hours is way to quick and are you looking at the shoot or the roots? the roots are no indicator you need to open the grain and look at the agrospire. it should just be at the end of the grain with some of them just exiting the grain. you need to dry the malt at no more than about 40°C till its crunchy before kilning.

it sounds like you didnt let it malt far enough, same as my first few attempts at malting, it should take 7 days from steeping to be ready any faster than this and your malt has bolted and wont be as effective.

the gelatinousness goo that you got sounds like it still has proteins in the starch (ie not malted enough)

you do NOT want to limit the air its not a problem for the malting, it helps stop mold and the temp rising. thats all my rotating drum does it replaces the malting floor, i dont steep or dry or kiln in the drum only malt

 

[Brewbecca]

Hello fellow maltsters, just an upgrade on my malting experiments.

Few days ago I started malting a second batch of barley (it would be the third, but I don't coun't the one I threw away because it had drowned). The climate tricked me: after a week at about 70 F, it turned suddenly to about 90, just in the day I set the malt on the floor for germination. Result: today, after about 50 hours, it's malted superfast again. Well, some less than the previous attempt: this time in most of the grains the acrosphire's length is 50-75% of the grain's length. Anyway, I sent the batch to the drying stage, because I'm going to use a different method: a room on the upper floor of the house (the 2nd), temp about 85 F and a good flow of air. So it's not that hot: probably the barley will go on germinating a while, than start drying. It's a kind of wind drying, I'm curious to see the results!!

Just a bit of other informations: I noticed the black ends show even after steeping, so it's not related to the drying phase. Then I had a look to my reserve of grains, the grains threshed and then untouched: I think I can see in some of them a bluish that might become the black end after steeping. So it could be someting related to my growing. BTW, it's the end not attached to the ear.

After one week, the beer we brewed has been changed of vessel (don't know the reasons or the technical names for this operation ): it tastes sweet but not bad. Found with low density, so we added some more yeast, even if I fear that this will reduce the thickness of the taste. What could we add when we pour it in the final bottles?
If in the end it tastes good, we will try another brew with the second superfast malt, this time adding some malt very rich with enzymes. Any suggestion about this?

Keep malting!

 

[hops4me]

Way Cool! I am in the threshing stage. I will be malting as soon as the temp. gets cooler Thank for the info and pictures. I think this will really help. I still have another plot fo Barley growing should be ready for harvest in a month.

 

[EcuBrew]

Making Malt:

rinse well, several times.
Soak @10 - 12C:
Large kernels: 60hrs
Small: 40hrs
Change water as often as possible, at least twice a day, first time after 6hrs.*For the last soak add a bit of hydrated lime if possible, to avoid development of bacteria during germination.
In the end, drain well.
I use my lautertun with the false bottom for all of the above ( my drain is in the bottom).
Put in a pile and keep at 14-18C inside the pile, (adjust layer thickness, watch closely, it's not good when the malt gets too hot!!!).
Turn often and decrease pile height as necessary. Let the sprout (don't mistake the little roots for sprouts!!!) grow to 3/4 of the length of the kernel. You need to "open" the kernel to check, the sprout remains hidden.
At that point, spread out very thin and let air dry. If there’s not enough air movement, use a fan. In the industry malt is usually dried with heat, but you always need to do some air-drying first.
I try to make malt in early spring when it is still cold enough in the basement, but warm enough upstairs to spread out the green malt on a plastic sheet where I simply use a fan. Turn the malt often to make it dry evenly. This way it takes very little energy, so it doesn’t matter if it takes a bit longer.
I never had any problems with mold.

You could use the malt in 3 different ways:
Green:
Use the malt immediately when the sprout is long enough, without any drying. Put through a meat grinder (fine enough screen) and mash.
Air dried only:
Dry with air only. Could also be done in the sun. Spread very thin!
When dry enough grind coarsely before mashing. Rolling the malt is better.
Air dried + heat dried:
Make sure not to overheat (absolute max = 80C for a pale malt / base malt), it would kill too many or all of your enzymes that you need for converting the starch into sugar thru mashing.

Remember that you could use part malt / part raw grain for making beer. Start with no less than 50% malt until you have more experience.
1kg of malt / grain should give you 5 litres of beer with 5 % alc. This is when you do a good job…
I suggest not trying to lager beer too long, but drink it as fresh as possible, like they used to (had to) in the old days. I always start drinking mine before it has even stopped fermenting. Gives a real Vit B- complex boost!!!

 

[Jaellis]

So I am not sure what happened, but I think my barley drown. This is my first attempt at malting so I figured I would screw up a batch or two.

soak 1: 8 hours
drain 1: 8 hours, aerated every 2 hours
soak 2: 6 hours
drain 2: 10 hours, aerated at hours 2, 6 and 10
soak 3: 8 hours
drain 3: 8 hours, aerated every 2 hours
I noticed chits had appeared at this stage
soak 4: 4 hours
drain 4: 4 hours, aerated every 2 hours
throughout the process I mixed and aerated the grain.
There was no change all grain stopped after the chits barely formed. I stirred and sprayed with water every 4-8 hours, I noticed a really bad smell and the grain was extremely soft after day 4 and threw the batch out.

Dry weight was 10 lbs. after the last drain the weight was 18.6 lbs. This seems like it absorbed too much water, from what I read (after the fact) we are shooting for around 35% - 45% moisture content, but it appears that I had 75% - 85%.

Am I understanding this correct? I have 50 lbs to play with so I am trying another bath doing cycles of 2 hour soak and 8 hour draining until the weight reaches 140% of the original weight(i.e. 10 lbs dry should weigh 14 lbs after the last draining).

I am just looking for a confirmation that that was my mistake, or if I am doing something else wrong.

 

[COLObrewer]

I start couching the grain after the chits appear, maybe they did drown. How are you aerating and what temperature was the water during the soaks? What temperature was it after the last soak? Did you couch them at all, maybe they overheated?

 

[Jaellis]

I start couching the grain after the chits appear, maybe they did drown. How are you aerating and what temperature was the water during the soaks? What temperature was it after the last soak? Did you couch them at all, maybe they overheated?

To be honest, I am not sure the temperatures, I found this thread when I was searching for what happened. I aerate by transferring the barley back into the bucket I use for soaking and put a lid on the bucket with no water just the drained barley and roll it slowly at least 5 full turns, sometimes more depending on how easily I am amused at the moment. Then transfer back to the strainer. I am not sure of the temps because I didn't know to take the temps until I read this thread. But tap water here is about 65 - 70 degrees, before the last soak I did notice it was warm but not what I would call hot. After the last soak it felt near room temp, mid 70s. How hot is too hot? I spread out the grains after the fourth soak, (this is couching right?) But then saw no further modification.

 

[passedpawn]

Happiness is: this thread. While I might put this off till retirement, I'll do it one day. Until then, I do it vicariously through you home-malting pioneers. Cheers!

 

[ghohn]

I was super stringent about the soak times but found a bucket with a few small holes really does the trick. I've got it in my bathroom so when ever I'm in there, ahem, about twice a day, I fill the bucket with tap water. It takes about 30-60 minutes to slow drain out. The grains are quite happy.

you do NOT want to limit the air its not a problem for the malting, it helps stop mold and the temp rising. thats all my rotating drum does it replaces the malting floor, i dont steep or dry or kiln in the drum only malt

I've malted a lot of grain using the traditional malting floor. Absinthe I'm REALLY curious about your setup with the drum. Can you please post us some photos?

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . . I spread out the grains after the fourth soak, (this is couching right?) But then saw no further modification.

Did you keep them moist during the couching phase? Also, tell us about your barley grain, where did you get it? The temperatures you are talking about shouldn't be too hot to kill the grain unless your couching bed was too thick. The malt creates heat when malting but it sounds like this is where it stopped, I would think if it was moist and had chitted, it would bolt at those temperatures.

 

[Jaellis]

Did you keep them moist during the couching phase? Also, tell us about your barley grain, where did you get it? The temperatures you are talking about shouldn't be too hot to kill the grain unless your couching bed was too thick. The malt creates heat when malting but it sounds like this is where it stopped, I would think if it was moist and had chitted, it would bolt at those temperatures.

I got the raw barley from the local feed store, yes I made sure it was moist but it never really started to dry out, maybe too wet? So the only thing I can point to is that it drowned. I read the nutrition profile of the barley and had a crude protein content of 10% I figured this is lower than briess at the LHBS.

 

[Absinthe]

I was super stringent about the soak times but found a bucket with a few small holes really does the trick. I've got it in my bathroom so when ever I'm in there, ahem, about twice a day, I fill the bucket with tap water. It takes about 30-60 minutes to slow drain out. The grains are quite happy.



I've malted a lot of grain using the traditional malting floor. Absinthe I'm REALLY curious about your setup with the drum. Can you please post us some photos?

how about a video?


the malt roller is the best.. i get much more even malting and with a timer i only need to check it once a day to see how shes malting

and to kiln i use a modified clothes dryer


and how i started malting (i still use the same soaking method just not malting on the floor anymore), also explaining the "hole in my bucket" method of soaking


i make ALL my own malt at home including crystal and roasted malts.. i might do a video on how i roast and make crystal malts

 

[Jaellis]

So I started another small batch using 3 2 hour soaks and 3 8 hours drains, I couched it last night and it is already more modified than my last batch. Thanks for the questions it helped me think about questions I didn't know to ask. First batch fail... second batch good so far. Some chits are starting to extend a little and I am religiously spraying and mixing every two hours and have a ceiling fan in the room on low for air circulation and cooling. At night I spray a little more water and turn off the fan until morning, I am hoping it is done modifying on tues.

 

[Absinthe]

dont bother spraying water its not required all it will do is make the risk of mold go up 100 times and add heaps more water to dry out when it comes time to kiln.. if you are turning every 2 hours then it wont dry out enough to cause problems.. but the fan is also not needed if you turn enough... watch some vids on floor malting and you wont see fans or any water added

 

[COLObrewer]

With the temperature and humidity (lack of) in Arizona you are gonna have to mist (or sprinkle) your malt with water while couching or it will dry up, stop growing and die. do you have a cooler place to malt like in a basement, etc? You can inhibit growth of mold if you add a little bleach, maybe 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons, some have also used hydrogen peroxide and iodophor, I've never used either however. I've never tried malting over 70F either, hope this helps.

One of the benefits of being in the desert is that you can use the sun to dry your malt, I place mine on the drying hoards in the sun off the ground for the initial drying after modification.

Keep on malting my friend.

Edit: Jaellis, I thought it said Arizona on your location, doesn't matter nevada's about the same, maybe dryer.

 

[Jaellis]

Thank you colobrewer, everything seems to go well I couched the grain a little thinner this time and do add water when I feel no moisture when I am turning it. The room is a steady 74 F and the grain has stayed a steady 68 F. I am tinking partially because of evaporative cooling with the fan. We don't have a real mold problem out here. Food tends to dry out before it molds here, I am looking forward to drying in the sun it has been around 95-100 degrees lately with a very dry wind. I just gotta make a critter screen.

Right now acrospire is at 40-60% and rootlets are growing just fine, grain is at 68 F

 

[Jaellis]

Well my plans to airdry outside have been derailed with a week of 60 - 70 degree weather. Don't get me wrong I welcome the cooler weather, but now I have to dry the grain another way. I thought about leaving it spread really thin and having. A fan blow across it, but all I could do was imagine all my grain getting blown into the corner and that would have been too cold anyways, aroud 70 F. So I took a couple clip on lamps with 60 watt bulbs, tossed them in the oven on the bottom, and waited and 30 minutes, I checked every 10 minutes and being steady at 100 F I felt satisfied. So I put the grain on all of our baking sheets and put them all in. I calculate his is almost 10 lbs (dry weight) All but a 3 lbs fit(a little more than 2 lbs dry weight), I am going to experiment at making a crystal malt tonight.

Now I had a qurestion on kilning. One method I read said to just dry and it is pale malt, but others I read say kiln at 170 F - 212 F for two hours. What are everyones thoughts? Doesn't kilning it that high denature some or a lot of the amylase, I understood it denatures at around 170, am I just not understanding this?

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . Now I had a qurestion on kilning. One method I read said to just dry and it is pale malt, but others I read say kiln at 170 F - 212 F for two hours. What are everyones thoughts? Doesn't kilning it that high denature some or a lot of the amylase, I understood it denatures at around 170, am I just not understanding this?

This is where you get into the different types of malt, it seems everyone has their own proprietary methods that they don't fully divulge. This site: http://brewingtechniques.com/bmg/pauls.html has the most complete information I've found for commercial temperatures at different steps for different malts. You may have to look around in there. Some handy info: Initial drying needs to be below 112F (for all malts) then up to 170ish for very pale malts (lager, pilsner, pale, wheat, rye, etc), However curing (for some kilned pale malts, biscuit, victory, munich, vienna, dextrin, etc) needs to be above 176F at different time intervals and other parameters.

To your last question I believe your speaking of the enzymes which are not activated until the mashing process which is after the malting process (in most cases). If I remember right you can kiln up to 212F before much damage is done. Of course crystal/caramel malt is a different animal since it is mashed prior to kilning. Also most of the darker roasted malts (Chocolate, black, etc) have no diastatic power due to the very high kilning temperatures (300F up to 500F in some cases) Roasted barley also uses these temperatures but of course has not been modified whatsoever and also has no diastatic power

 

[Jaellis]

...
To your last question I believe your speaking of the enzymes which are not activated until the mashing process which is after the malting process (im most cases). If I remember right you can kiln up to 212F before much damage is done. ...

Ok that make more sense that the enzymes need to be activated before they are denatured in the mash. That is where I was getting confused. Thanks.

So for a smaller batch of crystal about 2 lbs what about using a crockpot with a temperature probe that controls the temp for the mini mash? We got a big one for our wedding a few years ago and I was thinking that would be perfect to keep it at a steady temp for as long as I needed. Any thoughts or problems associated with that? Or has anyone tried this with success or failure?

 

[Absinthe]

if you have a good amount of moisture left in the grain then just pop the grain in a baking dish and cover it well with foil then put it in an oven at 150°f to make crystal. mashing it will just wash flavor and sugars away and it makes a sticky mess when it comes to kilning.

to stop from denaturing the enzymes you need to slowly work up to the kilning temp and make sure its completely dry before you get over 120°F ish. this takes almost all day (to dry and kiln) in my converted dryer and it took me 2-4 days without it and it was no fun at all.