Grain help

[DetroitOwl]

Greetings from Detroit, I am preparing to start my first all grain brew on the new equipment (new to me anyway) that I bought from another member on here.

I wanted to brew an English bitter and have spent about 10 days changing my mind back and forth about which recipe to go with, however one thing they all have in common is the use of maris otter.



The only place kind of local to me said they have it in stock so I ordered it along with everything else I needed, my wife picked it up this morning and brought it home, it isn't maris otter and being inexperienced I haven't got a clue what to do. I called them and they said "the carrier calls it their maris otter" whatever that means, I could call myself young, rich and a fantastic lover, it doesn't make it true does it? Anyway I digress, this is what I have....





The recipe I had ready in brewfather is all messed up when switching the grain and I don't know where to go from here, any help would be appreciated.

 

[VikeMan]

Maris Otter is a (usually) Pale Ale Malt made from a specific English barley cultivar (i.e. Maris Otter). Your Proximity Pale Ale Malt is made from some other barley cultivar. And it looks like it's about the same color as a typical Maris Otter malt.

Although it's not exactly Maris Otter, I'd wager that it would probably make a good Bitter.

 

[Beekeeper]

You certainly can brew an English Biter using Pale Ale malt, just dial in your target ABV and degree of bittering and brew a batch. It'll be fine.

 

[IslandLizard]

@VikeMan beat me to it! ^^

I'd wager that malt makes a good tasting Bitter.
Which strain of yeast are you using?
Hops?

 

[Beekeeper]

Still, it does seem a bit dodgy to switch out a bag and simply call it "Maris" when it isn't.

 

[DetroitOwl]

Well at least I can use it which is good news, I suppose my next question would be do I just add more of the pale ale proximity malt to adjust or do I need to scale up the specialty grains too?

The yeast is wyeast 1469 (I've never used liquid yeast or made a starter so that should be fun)
Hops are EKG and fuggle

I too thought it was dodgy, it was never mentioned to me when I called to order it yesterday, or to my wife when she picked it up today, they loaded it into the back of the car so she never actually looked at it until I brought it in the house throwing a tantrum.

 

[IslandLizard]

Still, it does seem a bit dodgy to switch out a bag and simply call it "Maris" when it isn't.

I don't think it was switched out, they just wrote the "Maris" name on the bag. Surely very deceiving.
Unless... it is indeed Maris Otter, just put in a Proximity bag, for transport.
You didn't get a whole 50# bag, right?

Also, all European malts come in 55# sacks (25 Kg).

AFAIK, Maris Otter and Golden Promise are NOT grown outside England and Scotland.

"the carrier calls it their maris otter"

Who's their "carrier?" BSG?*
I know BSG stocks a large variety of malts, including German and British ones. I've always been able to source those through our group buys, when we did those, or my LHBS. BSG supplies those.

* I would think of a carrier being the delivery/trucking company, not the supplier/warehouse.

 

[VikeMan]

Well at least I can use it which is good news, I suppose my next question would be do I just add more of the pale ale proximity malt to adjust or do I need to scale up the specialty grains too?

Looking at the maltster's specs for Proximity Pale Ale Malt, my guess is that you won't need to adjust anything, including the base malt. It's extract and moisture specs are virtually identical to Simpsons Maris Otter, for example.

Here's what I calculate for the Proximity malt:

81% Fine Grind Dry Basis x 46.21 PPG x (1 - 3.5% Moisture) = ~36 PPG

Perhaps you could share the underlying specs for the Maris Otter you had originally plugged into Brewfather.

 

[DetroitOwl]

Well the sensible thing would be to get a smaller amount just to try it so obviously I bought the entire sack. In my defense the only place I could get it locally was over the border in Canada so with tolls for crossing the bridge I thought it would be the smart thing to do.
The website states its a 55lb sack and as for the carrier I'm with you, my presumption would be a delivery company.

 

[DetroitOwl]

Perhaps you could share the underlying specs for the Maris Otter you had originally plugged into Brewfather.

I'm afraid I don't know what underlying specs means, I can tell you that I was going to use Thomas Fawcett maris otter and when switching it out for the proximity malt it dropped 0.1 abv, which is fine with me I don't mind that at all, being unsure as to whether I could still use it was the major concern that I had.

 

[IslandLizard]

The yeast is wyeast 1469

WY1469 is West Yorkshire, one of my favorite yeasts for Milds and Bitters.
It's a medium gravity beer, so depending on the best-by date, you may be able to get away with pitching it directly, without making a starter.

Generally it's advised to make starters when using liquid yeasts, although that's another chapter to learn about, it's fairly easy.
Given today's yeast pricing, making starters has the advantage that you can make more than you need to pitch, and save the remainder out to make another starter from, and again, and again...
In order to do that successfully, you'll need to exercise good sanitation practices. From what I gather, you're a brand new homebrewer, there are many things to learn and put into practice, all at once.

BTW, here's my favorite yeast calculator, to get an idea of what I'm talking about:
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

 

[VikeMan]

I'm afraid I don't know what underlying specs means, I can tell you that I was going to use Thomas Fawcett maris otter and when switching it out for the proximity malt it dropped 0.1 abv, which is fine with me I don't mind that at all, being unsure as to whether I could still use it was the major concern that I had.

Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter's specs imply slightly less extractable carbs than Proximity Pale Ale Malt's specs, so if anything you's use a tiny bit less (not more) Proximity to get the same gravity. But they are so close that I'd recommend just brewing your recipe "as is" with the malt you have. (I don't know why Brewfather is telling you you'd need more Proximity. Maybe just a different set of specs were used. Or maybe the Proximity (not a very big malster) malt got some sort of default specs in the program.)

 

[DetroitOwl]

Great stuff, thanks for the help guys!
It seems the way forward is to brew it "as is" without changing anything and not worry about the numbers too much.

 

[Bobby_M]

Whether it makes a good bitter or not, you asked them for Maris Otter and got a domestic pale ale malt. I'd consider Rahr Pale Ale, Briess Pale, and Proximity all interchangeable. None of them are even close to Maris Otter, which is a specific English varietal that is often made into a pale ale malt.

Did they also give you Cascade hops when you asked for East Kent Goldings?

Any shop that doesn't carry a real imported Maris should go out of business. The end.

 

[Bobby_M]

I know BSG stocks a large variety of malts, including German and British ones. I've always been able to source those through our group buys, when we did those, or my LHBS. BSG supplies those.

* I would think of a carrier being the delivery/trucking company, not the supplier/warehouse.

LD Carlson is the exclusive distributor of Proximity. They also "carry" Munton's or Warminster Maris Otter.

 

[DetroitOwl]

So while I don't doubt that I can make bitter from this malt, I'll try to add some information without it becoming an essay. Here's why I was looking for maris otter...

I am English, have lived in Detroit for more than a decade and while I have had dozens of brilliant beers, I just can't find that taste of home. This was my primary reason for looking into homebrewing to begin with, that's not to say I won't be brewing other styles because I absolutely will, just that I would like to get to a point where I always have a keg of bitter ready to pour (I suppose I would almost liken it to how you guys seem to always have a supply of a cheaper "sessionable" beer for when you're doing yard work etc).
This is also why I opted to buy 55lbs of the stuff because I will be brewing a keg every 2-3 weeks I would imagine so I'm going to get through it.

Whether it makes a good bitter or not, you asked them for Maris Otter and got a domestic pale ale malt. I'd consider Rahr Pale Ale, Briess Pale, and Proximity all interchangeable. None of them are even close to Maris Otter, which is a specific English varietal that is often made into a pale ale malt.

Did they also give you Cascade hops when you asked for East Kent Goldings?

Any shop that doesn't carry a real imported Maris should go out of business. The end.

This is why I called ahead, explaining what I was looking for, what I was trying to achieve and that I'm an absolute beginner, they were extremely friendly and seemed very knowledgeable, which lead me to wonder whether one of a few things happened.
They thought they would sell me whatever and write "maris" on the bag because I don't know what I'm doing (which obviously is true).
That because my wife picked it up (who knows slightly less about this than I do) and she had traveled into Canada from the US that by the time we found out it was too late as we aren't going to spend another $15 crossing the bridge to return it (which they never offered to do when I called them to question why I had received what I had).
Or that it was a genuine mistake on either their or my part which up to me calling to ask why the bag said "pale ale" I assumed to be the case.

Either way having been reassured by you guys on this forum that it's not the end of the world and that it will make bitter, I will drink it and most likely really enjoy doing so. I just need to somehow find a way to get a 55lb bag of maris otter in the metro Detroit area that isn't an extortionate price or hope that shipping prices come down/free shipping becomes available somewhere online.